Wilson Chandler thinks he can be an allstar in 2 years...
Just one comment on the Bosh trade to Miami.. apparently the Clippers had offered Griffin for Bosh (this came from Doug Smith in one of his past blogs). This was after the 2009 draft (so Bryan could have made a deal for Bosh before the 2010 off season):
I'm not the biggest Griffin fan.. but I would have done that deal in a heart beat. And assuming Griffin got injured like he did in LA.. we would have tanked in 2009/2010, thus getting a solid pick (say Paul George for example) in the 2010 draft instead of Ed Davis.Here’s one for you:
How would have liked Blake Griffin in a Raptors uniform?
You have to trust me on this but it comes from a guy I trust without doubt and it works like this.
Way back after the Clips on the lottery, there was a call made to determine if there was any interest in a deal that would have sent Chris Bosh to the Clippers for the No. 1 overall pick with Toronto willing to take back the then-monstrous contract of Baron Davis in the deal.
Just pointing out that there were more options on the table in 2009 well before the 2010 off season. Instead Bryan decided to try and keep Bosh by signing Turk and Jack. Not a good decision in my opinion.
As discussion has evolved it was my understanding:
No one cares about boo-hoo bosh left.... good riddance.
The issue of whether he misled the Raptors is an unknown on both sides of the argument - opinions clearly differ.
What else is there left to debate discuss? Oh right, the return of Bosh and would the Raptors have been better off trading him before the trade deadline - to which it is my opinion no.
I don't think there is a different discussion going on at this point. How else does this discussion even remain relevant if the crying over the returns of a Bosh trade is not put in to perspective of the current state of the franchise? Seems that people don't want to discuss uncertain future when they can wail and cry over a known past.... kind of like arm chair GM's or the 'shoulda, coulda, woulda' crowd who look to the past rather than the future.
This was offered before July 14th, 2009 when the Raps were able to offer an extension. A known 24 year old 20/10 all star for an unknown #1 and 4 years and $60M for Baron Davis who was out of shape, oft-injured, and a poor locker room presence? All the rumours of Bosh wanting out were never confirmed and goes back to an earlier argument.
At the time, this trade would have been like trading a guaranteed 20/10 player for an unknown 20/10 and a debt to pay $60M. That doesn't sound like the kind of stuff that would have flown with the MLSE bean counters.
So with hindsight gone, the question that Bryan had to face at that particular moment was whether or not he wanted to rebuild without Bosh or try to contend with Bosh and his potential max salary.
At that time I was personally hoping for the former, since I didn't see rings with Bosh as "the man" on the roster. And even if the amnesty clause was never created and/or Griffin ended up being a bust - the bottom line was that a Bosh lead team only made the playoffs twice, and in both cases were eliminated in the first round.
I think Bryan (and MLSE if they were making the shots) made a poor decision not just because of hindsight but because he wasn't looking at the big picture. ie, Bosh as "the man" was not going to get you a ring, and keeping Bosh while getting someone else to be that man would have been extremely difficult (since we don't attract free agents, and our draft picks would be mediocre).
I am happy that things have turned out well for us. As your avatar suggests though - it took 5 years for Bryan to get it.. It's just too bad it wasn't 4 years.
Totally agree that Bosh as the man wasn't going to get you a ring but it doesn't look like Griffin will do that either.... and certainly Baron Davis would not have either.
If we are going to look at the big picture, then the question likely to be asked was: "Will Griffin + Davis make us a better team?" I think the answer is no. A more exciting team? Absolutely, but better? Nope.
*EDIT* OH yeah. I am going to have to change the avatar. After going for Nash, I'm not sure BC gets it. Keep in mind I was pushing for Nash... did the whole thread and all.... but I was wrong.
Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 02:33 PM.
Griffin (like A Davis this year) was a consensus #1 pick in 2009. The chance for him to be a franchise altering talent was high. I'd take him and B Diddy because I think I'd have a better chance of building a contender over keeping Bosh at a max contract and then building around him (compounded by the fact that resigning him has only a 50% chance of success).
And I do agree in that Bosh is better than Griffin+Davis in the short term.. but I think Griffin plus a high pick in 2010 and 2011 would be better in the long term even if Davis was still on the roster rotting away.
A consensus #1 pick is still not a certainty to be a 20/10 guy. Bosh was and still under 25 at that. When the offer was reportedly made, the Raptors were not even able to offer a contract extension to Bosh. FWIW, I do not classify Griffin as a franchise altering guy on the court... in 2009 it would have been a hope/prayer/guess that ultimately failed.
Also, the Raptors would have had the same problems building with B. Diddy and Griffin as they did with Bosh - no cap space or flexibility to add talent. The amnesty was an unknown at the time and Davis would have only come off the books on July 1st, 2012.
I think we have to agree to disagree on the merits of this trade.
Your whole premise is plugging constants in to an "OKC-magic-formula" when there are many in fact many variables that went in to OKC's success - many of which were beyond their control.
If the OKC formula was that easy, every non-playoff team would be attempting it.
Without Durant (i.e. one of the best players in a generation), none of it is possible. Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka alone is not a championship calibre team.
ok, Ok, OK, .... Using the term 'OKC-model' is a sore point, I see. But the point remains, playing crap (intentionally or not) and acquiring good, young affordable talent via the draft gives you the option of developing that talent further or or flipping it into established better talent. Blinding glimpse of the obvious, I know.
Quick, close the thread! We have achieved world peace! lol
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