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Feeling down on the Raptors? Please tell me why.

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  • #16
    I'm optimistic in the sense that I think the Raptors will be a much better team this upcoming season than they were last year.

    They've upgraded the point guard, small forward and centre positions. They got deeper. They got more athletic. Dwayne Casey did a great job last season despite trotting out a D-league line up for the last third of the season and he will have more weapons at his disposal this year. On paper, they should be an improved team on both sides of the ball. I love what they did this offseason.

    Having said all that I think they will still be in tough to make the playoffs, so it's hard to get really pumped up about the team even though it will be a much better product to watch on a game to game basis next season. Miami, Boston, New York, Brooklyn, Indiana, Philadelphia and Chicago make seven playoff teams from the East, which means that the Raps will be battling the Hawks and Bucks (maybe the Wizards if they make a leap) for that last spot. The playoffs would be an overachievement next season, and a trip to the lottery nets us nothing in terms of assets as the Rockets have our pick.

    It would be great if the team is still playing meaningful games down the stretch as they try to squeak into the postseason but it's not the type of scenario that has me in a frenzy as a fan. I have been an avid supporter since day one of this franchise and I'm at the point where grabbing a bottom seed in the playoffs just to get steamrolled by the Heat isn't a particularly appealing scenario either. Yes, it would be a welcome change from the last couple of years and a step in the right direction, but I can't say I look back at the past Raptor teams that got thumped in the first round with fond memories necessarily. Selfishly, I want the team to compete for a championship. Whether it's considered pessimistic or just realistic, I still think we're a long ways away.
    Last edited by Fully; Mon Sep 10, 2012, 01:15 PM.

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    • #17
      Fully wrote: View Post
      I'm optimistic in the sense that I think the Raptors will be a much better team this upcoming season than they were last year.

      They've upgraded the point guard, small forward and centre positions. They got deeper. They got more athletic. Dwayne Casey did a great job last season despite trotting out a D-league line up for the last third of the season and he will have more weapons at his disposal this year. On paper, they should be an improved team on both sides of the ball. I love what they did this offseason.

      Having said all that I think they will still be in tough to make the playoffs, so it's hard to get really pumped up about the team even though it will be a much better product to watch on a game to game basis next season. Miami, Boston, New York, Brooklyn, Indiana, Philadelphia and Chicago make seven playoff teams from the East, which means that the Raps will be battling the Hawks and Bucks (maybe the Wizards if they make a leap) for that last spot. The playoffs would be an overachievement next season, and a trip to the lottery nets us nothing in terms of assets as the Rockets have our pick.

      It would be great if the team is still playing meaningful games down the stretch as they try to squeak into the postseason but it's not the type of scenario that has me in a frenzy as a fan. I have been an avid supporter since day one of this franchise and I'm at the point where grabbing a bottom seed in the playoffs just to get steamrolled by the Heat isn't a particularly appealing scenario either. Yes, it would be a welcome change from the last couple of years and a step in the right direction, but I can't say I look back at the past Raptor teams that got thumped in the first round with fond memories necessarily. Selfishly, I want the team to compete for a championship. Whether it's considered pessimistic or just realistic, I still think we're a long ways away.
      I don't think your last statement is pessimistic at all. The Raps are a long way from competing for a Championship, but I would suggest that outside of 4ish teams all franchises are in the same boat to verying degrees. If you think the Nets are going to compete against the Lakers, the Heat, OKC for a title, they are not. They are major pieces away from that as well, and have a crippling salary to show for it. Are they farther along than the Raps, probably, but will win the exact same number of titles as we will this year.

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      • #18
        CT2010 wrote: View Post
        Do you mean the Jeremy Lamb that Devoe Joseph outplayed in summer league, that Jeremy Lamb
        Nonsense

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        • #19
          I think as someone in Toronto who holds out hope for all teams Toronto, it's just been a hard go. Especially with ESPN Mag rating the Jays at #79, the Raps at #103, and the Leafs at the bottom. It's made harder because they're right. We pay too much for a product that isn't that good, and all too often we're ok with it. I think we made some strides, but where does it get us...maybe into the playoffs? Is that good enough? I hate it when I'm labelled a hater for wanting more, what is wrong with wanting more?
          Look at the top 2 teams on ESPN's poll OKC and Green Bay, it's not like OKC or Wisconsin are hot beds for sports yet they've made a committment to their fan base to work hard to be the best. I just don't feel like MLSE is projecting that same image, not that they're not trying, but that it isn't consistant. We tried with Bosh, but at what point does a GM say 'look, we're losing this guy no matter what, let's try and get something for it' Instead we were left empty handed. It's time for MLSE to become proactive as opposed to sitting on their hands. When Lowry comes in and has a good season, are we going to wait to give him money, or tangle with his contract and send mixed signals?
          There isn't anything wrong with Toronto, that perception needs to go away, but as fans maybe it's time we demand more. I for one am not going to spend $80-100 a Raps game just so that I can go out. I want to believe in my damned team because I'm from Toronto, and I'm proud of Toronto, so I want a team that resembles my pride and act like it every damned day of their lives! (insert braveheart make-up and gigantic sword). Just look at this board, all we do is talk about our team (good or bad) we are the die hard fans. And as Wu-tang once put it "Die hard fans de-mand more"

          Thank you for your time!
          i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

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          • #20
            Lamb was tearing it up in the summer league. Ross had some highlight reel moments, also but that was just summer league. I have a wait and see attitude with the Raptors rookies before I pass judgement on the last two drafts.

            I believe that, barring unforeseen injuries, the Raptors will be more competitive this season than in the past few. I have faith in Casey's coaching abilities and considering the limitations of the free agency scenario this summer, Colangelo did well in filling roster spots.

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            • #21
              CT2010 wrote: View Post
              I don't think your last statement is pessimistic at all. The Raps are a long way from competing for a Championship, but I would suggest that outside of 4ish teams all franchises are in the same boat to verying degrees. If you think the Nets are going to compete against the Lakers, the Heat, OKC for a title, they are not. They are major pieces away from that as well, and have a crippling salary to show for it. Are they farther along than the Raps, probably, but will win the exact same number of titles as we will this year.
              Honestly, I'm past the point of taking solace in other franchise's missteps as well. The Nets overspending for practically everyone on their roster and watching it potentially implode over the next few seasons will be somewhat entertaining to watch from a distance, but it will ultimately have very little impact on where the Raptors go over the same time frame.

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              • #22
                i've tempered my expectations quite a bit in the past couple months (don't expect playoffs anymore, would be pleasantly surprised) and even still i'm overloaded with excitement for this team.

                haters gonna hate
                @sweatpantsjer

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                • #23
                  Raptors have the best roster they've had for some time. They might have the best bench they've ever had. Jose has started 107 games in the last 2 seasons. Amir has started 93. Kleiza has started 24, Dav is has started 26, Anderson was solid last year, JV and Ross have started none, but we shall see what we shall see.

                  We pretty much know what to expect with Demar and Bargs, while Fields and Lowry and Gay are known quantities. There is a chance for Bargs to return as the "13 Weeks" Bargs, and one can hope that Demar has made improvements.

                  Even more to the point, we know what Casey brings.

                  Lots of reason to expect improvement. Lots of reason to expect improvement the following year as well. Financial flexibility is there in the 2013-2014 season, so no reason not to expect another significant signing, especially with the salary cap thumbscrews tightening up.

                  So, better this year. Better next year. Team is more attractive for free agents. Young players (Val, Lowry, Fields, Demar, Anderson, Ross, Davis) improving or moved for other parts. I'm pumped.

                  Raptors are stacked.

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                  • #24
                    Fully wrote: View Post
                    Honestly, I'm past the point of taking solace in other franchise's missteps as well. The Nets overspending for practically everyone on their roster and watching it potentially implode over the next few seasons will be somewhat entertaining to watch from a distance, but it will ultimately have very little impact on where the Raptors go over the same time frame.
                    I was not trying to take pleasure or solace in other franchises situations, but rather trying to say that there are only a handful of teams that can compete for a title and only one that will win. I believe that we are taking the right steps to give the team a chance to compete on a nightly basis. Keep adding talent, develop the young talent you have maintain flexibility to make moves if and when they become available. I think that is the right way to move forward.

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                    • #25
                      sleepz wrote: View Post
                      Nonsense
                      Well, maybe a bit hyperbolic, but I watched a bunch of highlights of summer league play and it became pretty clear why the Raps passed on Lamb. His defense was no existent letting guys get to the rim at will, including Devoe Joseph. Lamb looks like a pretty good one way offensive player, but I thought his defense was very soft.

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                      • #26
                        On paper, we're still the worst team in our division. And our success will be highly dependent on DeRozan learning how to dribble and becoming competent at things he should already be competent at. Bargnani must stay healthy AND maintain what would have been nothing short of a historically large improvement (dem 13 games). Lowry must stay healthy, when he hasn't been able to for a long time. Our SF rotation is still laughable at best, and imo got worse with the loss of JJ. 2 rookies, minus JJ and a healthier Bargnani (and ergo less Ed/Amir, our best defenders) pretty much secures a sizable defensive regression.

                        We're still on the outside looking in. And even if we manage to get "in", it'll be extremely difficult to get any further. The Jonas and Ross picks would basically have to be nothing short of homeruns. And when DD, Jonas and Ross are peak, Bargnani and Lowry will be about to decline basically.

                        So meh.

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                        • #27
                          I'm die-hard Raptors fan. Even if they never win a championship, i'll still watch the games and wear the gear. In short, I guess I'm the type of fan MLSE counts on for perpetual profits.

                          That doesn't mean I can't be disappointed or offer criticism when it's due. For this particular off-season, with all of our ducks in a row, I don't think management did enough to be competitive for the playoffs. We still need a serious upgrade at SF, and options were available. I like Fields enough, but he's a plus player at the 2, not 3. We are all but guaranteed a last place finish in the Atlantic division and a distant long-shot to hope for the 8th seed. Colangelo is betting his job that this particular unit will have almost everything go right and surprise everyone. I wouldn't have made that bet.

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                          • #28
                            WhatWhat wrote: View Post
                            On paper, we're still the worst team in our division. And our success will be highly dependent on DeRozan learning how to dribble and becoming competent at things he should already be competent at. Bargnani must stay healthy AND maintain what would have been nothing short of a historically large improvement (dem 13 games). Lowry must stay healthy, when he hasn't been able to for a long time. Our SF rotation is still laughable at best, and imo got worse with the loss of JJ. 2 rookies, minus JJ and a healthier Bargnani (and ergo less Ed/Amir, our best defenders) pretty much secures a sizable defensive regression.

                            We're still on the outside looking in. And even if we manage to get "in", it'll be extremely difficult to get any further. The Jonas and Ross picks would basically have to be nothing short of homeruns. And when DD, Jonas and Ross are peak, Bargnani and Lowry will be about to decline basically.

                            So meh.
                            Defensive regression? They've added a defensive anchor in JV, who may take long to develop but its a step in the right direction. Plus the addition of arguably the best defensive PG in the league in Lowry, who can put plenty of pressure on the oppositions point of attack, as well as keep his man out of the paint. Landry Fields can defend just as good, if not better than JJ, minus the blocked shots. And Terrence Ross is surprisingly very aggressive and willing on the defensive end. I don't know exactly how they will fare defensively this season, but I think it's safe to say that they havent regressed in that part of the game.

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                            • #29
                              Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
                              Defensive regression? They've added a defensive anchor in JV, who may take long to develop but its a step in the right direction. Plus the addition of arguably the best defensive PG in the league in Lowry, who can put plenty of pressure on the oppositions point of attack, as well as keep his man out of the paint. Landry Fields can defend just as good, if not better than JJ, minus the blocked shots. And Terrence Ross is surprisingly very aggressive and willing on the defensive end. I don't know exactly how they will fare defensively this season, but I think it's safe to say that they havent regressed in that part of the game.

                              +1

                              There is no way we regress defensively this season (and I don't mean by pure ranking, but in terms of defensive efficiency and capability). JV is the type of player we haven't had since Oakley; a big man willing to mix it up and protect the hoop. Plus the additions of Fields, Lowry and Ross are all upgrades.

                              James Johnson was good for stats and was only a good defender in fantasy terms (steals per game). He was often out of position, didn't rotate or reached for steals. Simply put, he was a selfish defender that often caused more harm than good. If he was as good a defender as Whatwhat thought, then he would have likely gotten along with Coach Casey and would still be on the roster.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                              • #30
                                I don't think we'll regress defensively, but something to keep in mind is that Amir and Ed started in place of Andrea when he was injured last season. Unless you think Andrea is as good of a defender as Amir or Ed you would have to speculate that having Andrea back in the starting line up may negatively affect the defence. But having better defenders like Lowry and Fields as well as JV could be enough to compensate.

                                Really excited, as always, for the season to start.

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