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  • #31
    Washington has won 0 games yet I believe 6 or 7 have been decided by 5 pts or less. Are they a .500 team masquerading as a 0 win team?

    It's nice that there is passion but the record is as it is. The Raps think thye are better than they are but the only real stat that indicates this is wins. They are exactly what their record indicates they are.

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    • #32
      A good old fashioned public flogging could bring this fan base together.

      Comment


      • #33
        Does anyone actually expect BC to be GM next year? I'm hoping he moves to the boardroom and leaves basketball ops to Stefanski

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        • #34
          sleepz wrote: View Post
          Washington has won 0 games yet I believe 6 or 7 have been decided by 5 pts or less. Are they a .500 team masquerading as a 0 win team?

          It's nice that there is passion but the record is as it is. The Raps think thye are better than they are but the only real stat that indicates this is wins. They are exactly what their record indicates they are.
          Oh, I completely agree. The Raptors deserve their 3-11 record.

          My post was more to highlight that the team genuinely believes good things are just around the corner. They haven't given up yet, which is impressive considering their record. Win or lose, that should give us some more entertaining games to watch this season

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          • #35
            Good point sleepz. There have been close games but everyone has close games. I never buy the excuse that a few lucky bounces means we had more wins. We've lost 11 games so far -- case closed.

            I think the article was too quick to judge Terrence Ross. I actually like this kid.

            I still don't think there is anything wrong with Casey. I don't understand the minutes Bargnani has been getting, but I've been questioning Barg's playtime for 4 years so it's nothing new to me. There has to be another explanation there because Bargnani has been getting too much playing time for his entire career.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • #36
              Are Raptors fans kidding me? Colangelo sticks with these guys because nobody else wants to play in Toronto, not even Nash. You guys are full fledged retards who have no clue whats going on, worst fans in the world.

              Comment


              • #37
                sleepz wrote: View Post
                Washington has won 0 games yet I believe 6 or 7 have been decided by 5 pts or less. Are they a .500 team masquerading as a 0 win team?

                It's nice that there is passion but the record is as it is. The Raps think thye are better than they are but the only real stat that indicates this is wins. They are exactly what their record indicates they are.
                whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there is a degree of luck involved in any sporting event...and DD's point, as rooted in excuse-making as it is, is simply a reflection that the teams feels that they've been unlucky to some degree. he's wildly exagerating the # of L's that would have been W's if not for bad luck - i'd put the number in the 4-5 range, optimistically.

                basically, win probability (the % likelihood that a team will win at any given point in a game) fluctuates during a game depending on how that game is going; a team up 20 with 2 minutes left has a very high win probability. but a close game that goes down to the wire is essentially a 50-50 proposition to very end, and often is decided by 1 or 2 plays. good/great teams simply turn those plays to their favour in close games more often than not. the difference between what separates a 'horrible' team from an average one (and an average one from an elite one) are often much smaller than we generally assume.

                i know we like to whip hollinger something fierce around here, but his rankings are more objective in nature than most (being stat-based), and he slots the raps in with other teams with much better records...which in & of itself doesn't say a whole lot, other than the stats bear out the notion that the team is playing better (and is playing their opponents tighter/tougher) than their record would indicate.

                so yes, at the end of the day, their record is what it is...but i feel better about this team when i factor everything in (new players, injuries, bargs shitting the bed on a continual basis, luck/karma/pissing off the basketball gods by continuing to play bargnani signficant minutes when he's a lazy motherchucker, etc) than i probably should. yes, the losses are dispiriting, but i'd rather they struggle now, fight through the rough patches, learn how to play together, incorporate JV into the gameplan, #freeED, etc) and realize they need to move on from certain players (and start freeing the reigns on other players th fool themselves into thinking they're better than they are by eking out wins & having a record that artificially inflates how 'good' they really are.
                TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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                • #38
                  Making the playoffs is not 'success'.

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                  • #39
                    Green Maple Leaf wrote: View Post
                    Are Raptors fans kidding me? Colangelo sticks with these guys because nobody else wants to play in Toronto, not even Nash. You guys are full fledged retards who have no clue whats going on, worst fans in the world.
                    And why exactly are you a member of the RAPTORS Republic? To be an ass-clown in front of people trying to share views and discuss their basketball team? Good job!
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                    • #40
                      BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
                      The problem is that in the NBA you reward failure with a Draft pick. So the little success he has had, was due to his failure.

                      Even when he failed, he failed at failing. We managed to get the worst picks, while teams like Cleveland were double dipping. Who the fuck is Terrence Ross?



                      Bryan is a loser regardless of how you arrange the letters.
                      I don't necessarily agree with you, although I don't entirely disagree either. The system is supposed to give opportunities for bad teams to patiently build a good team, suggesting that success should be cyclical if each team is managed properly. I don't think BC's draft choices have been bad considering who was available when we picked (although he did get lucky with the JV pick). He explicitly stated that the last 2 years were re-building years...meaning we will intentionally suck to acquire assets and cap space. To me, his real test as a GM will be how he manages the transition out of re-build. Which he has failed in the first 14 games of this season IMO. Lets see if he trusts this group to come together in the coming months or not.
                      Welp, that sucked.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                        whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there is a degree of luck involved in any sporting event...and DD's point, as rooted in excuse-making as it is, is simply a reflection that the teams feels that they've been unlucky to some degree. he's wildly exagerating the # of L's that would have been W's if not for bad luck - i'd put the number in the 4-5 range, optimistically.

                        basically, win probability (the % likelihood that a team will win at any given point in a game) fluctuates during a game depending on how that game is going; a team up 20 with 2 minutes left has a very high win probability. but a close game that goes down to the wire is essentially a 50-50 proposition to very end, and often is decided by 1 or 2 plays. good/great teams simply turn those plays to their favour in close games more often than not. the difference between what separates a 'horrible' team from an average one (and an average one from an elite one) are often much smaller than we generally assume.

                        i know we like to whip hollinger something fierce around here, but his rankings are more objective in nature than most (being stat-based), and he slots the raps in with other teams with much better records...which in & of itself doesn't say a whole lot, other than the stats bear out the notion that the team is playing better (and is playing their opponents tighter/tougher) than their record would indicate.

                        so yes, at the end of the day, their record is what it is...but i feel better about this team when i factor everything in (new players, injuries, bargs shitting the bed on a continual basis, luck/karma/pissing off the basketball gods by continuing to play bargnani signficant minutes when he's a lazy motherchucker, etc) than i probably should. yes, the losses are dispiriting, but i'd rather they struggle now, fight through the rough patches, learn how to play together, incorporate JV into the gameplan, #freeED, etc) and realize they need to move on from certain players (and start freeing the reigns on other players th fool themselves into thinking they're better than they are by eking out wins & having a record that artificially inflates how 'good' they really are.
                        Those are all fair points and they might indeed be "better" than their record indicates.

                        For some reason i just don't get that feeling though. Last year I looked at the roster and I coudln't believe how they were competing and winning games here and there. I never thought they were one of the worst teams last year, even though at the start of that season I thought they were top 3 lottery for sure. They ended up battling on the defensive end and won some games they probably shouldn't have.

                        This year however, they are losing to Pistons, Bobcats, etc who are teams I had already assumed they had passed in this stage of the game in team development. One game is one game so I shouldn't overanalyze it but it feels like these other teams wised up and started to defend and Raps have taken a step back with new emphasis on offence and fading in 4th quarters.

                        I will be patient and observe until the end of the year but I am not pleased with what I'm seeing on the court. It seems more like a mess, than a work in progress.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Copywryter wrote: View Post
                          Making the playoffs is not 'success'.
                          If that is your ceiling, no.

                          If it is a step in the process of going from bottom dweller to contender, then I think it is considered a success.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I remember writing a post a couple of years ago about how the Raptors don't stand a chance for the next half decade with BC, it's nice to see Raptors fans finally realize it now, albeit 2 years too late.

                            To me, I realized something was off about the guy when he traded for Jermaine O'neal with the plan of running an up-tempo offense. No plan, no vision, just trying to recreate what he did in Phoenix despite not having the type of talent to run such an offense.

                            It's too bad he salted the earth with his bad contracts and passing on a "project" in Andre Drummond for an "NBA ready" player in Terrence Ross. Meanwhile, Drummond looks like a more athletic version of Bynum and Ross looks like a project role player.

                            Time to clear house and start from scratch (keep JV).

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Andy Phillips is just venting except he has a much wider audience than we do.

                              I just skimmed the article:

                              1. The wing rotation. I find it amusing he lists a young rookie to be unprepared for the NBA as an issue. Were we to expect anything else?

                              2. Jose Calderon is not immune of being moved. In fact he would have been moved if it was not for Michael Jordan saying no to an agreed-upon trade.

                              3. Reggie Evans was with the team 2 seasons ago, Magloire last year. I guess they do not qualify as veteran presences in AP's books.

                              4. No discernible vision. That one was arguable until this past Summer when, my opinion, The Spin Doctor rolled the dice to try to save his job.

                              My recollection is almost everyone was happy that we got a steal when Ed Davis dropped to us. Although I mentioned the lack of due diligence before - ED was not worked out by Toronto - I think Ed Davis was not a bad pick at all. I still believe ED has a good chance at becoming a good rotation player and that's an above-average return on a late lottery pick in my opinion.

                              Terrence Ross is a low ceiling player? I have no clue actually and I doubt AP has any additional information to warrant such a harsh judgment. Some teams were very high on him and my assumption is they have a much more informed opinion than we do.

                              Media darlings, like Austin Rivers and Jimmer Fredette the year before, do not always look as good as the media make them to be. To Jimmer's defense, he does look like he can really shoot the 3 and I expect him to have a long career as a specialty player.

                              5. Culture of excuses. It's a valid point but you could say the same thing about half the teams in the league, if not more.

                              Having said that, I don't want The Spin Doctor's contract to be extended, at least in a GM capacity.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                                whether anyone wants to admit it or not, there is a degree of luck involved in any sporting event...and DD's point, as rooted in excuse-making as it is, is simply a reflection that the teams feels that they've been unlucky to some degree. he's wildly exagerating the # of L's that would have been W's if not for bad luck - i'd put the number in the 4-5 range, optimistically.
                                I don't disagree that there is an element of randomness and chance. Having said that, the exact same reasons for this current team's failure are not really any different from last year, the year before, the year before that, or really anytime over the last 5seasons.

                                When you lose one or two close games in the 4th quarter, you can chalk it up to luck. When you consistently lose games in the exact same way night after night, it's not just bad luck.

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