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Anybody out there still want Bargnani back?

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  • #31
    DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    i think its a forgone conclusion that bargs is no longer part of this team..& lots of articles have been popping up saying the same thing..

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...Trade_Bargnani


    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...k_to_be_moved/

    & this from Hoopshype wire today.

    Steve Kyler: Bargnani is no longer in the picture in Toronto, they'll play him to prove he's healthy, but a trade is almost inevitable at this point Twitter @stevekylerNBA

    id say our christmas wishes are comming true !
    Except that ESPN's Stein suggests that KL is paired in this trade, that is a "lock" to happen.

    I fear that we may be looking at KL and Bargs for Pau. This is probably one of the only instances where I'd rather keep Bargnani, coming off the bench, that is.

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    • #32
      xRevise wrote: View Post
      The thing with Bargnani is this; you never throw your team/teammates under the bus. Regardless of his horrendous play. It reminds me of when I was in Police Foundations and one of the students had asked the teacher (former OPP officer) why cops don't pull over other cops when they are speeding. The answer is simple, you pull over that cop and write him up a ticket, and let's say 6 months down the road that cop becomes your partner. You really think that guy is going to have your back? You never burn a bridge, and that is exactly what Bargs did. Therefore I can't see him coming back to the lineup. His team doesn't want him back, they want him shipped out so they can move on together as a cohesive unit.
      Personally, I'd rather have a partner who knew his job, and did it well. I'd know that if he's willing to pull me over (as a fellow cop), that means he's committed to putting the best possible product out in the workplace. THAT's the kind of people I like working with, because that's the kind of people who win.

      As a project manager, someone once told me "The Job is the boss, it trumps all other interests" For a cop, that means upholding the law takes precedent.

      For a basketball team, that means putting out a winning roster.

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      • #33
        Beagle wrote: View Post
        Well, I think it's pretty dumb to trade him without first seeing how he performs in a sixth-man role. He sometimes gets red hot. Sometimes he plays decent defense. As a sixth man, there is no risk putting him out there. If he shoots cold for five minutes or more, just sit him down again and try again the next game. His trade value will be much higher as the playoffs approach anyway. There will likely be a team or two looking to shore up their scoring in hopes of a playoff run. Trading him now for little in return is pretty stupid and will look very stupid if he becomes a productive sixth man on another team.
        I think at this stage in his career every GM in the league already knows what he can and can't do. Sure players improve, but he hasnt shown much improvement in recent years, actually, he did improve last year and significantly regressed this year. But his skill set or what he can bring to a team has been pretty much established seasons ago. Everyone knows he can score, he can pull the bigs out of the paint, he can shoot the 3, a minimal rebounder and average defender.

        My only issue having him on the sixth man role is, having him as a starter before with major minutes while having lackluster effort and performance, what would entice him to put forth maximum effort with less minutes?

        I just dont see it anymore. Even if he is not the focal point of offense, if he is still a Raptor, his mentality will still be as the Raptors main guy, like he's been the past couple of seasons. And the Raptors dont play like that anymore. Ball movement has been key in their wins and having Bargnani on the floor will definitely ruin that.

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        • #34
          T.Dot wrote: View Post
          I wouldn't necessarily call him a bust. Bust is Kwame Brown. Of course we have seen what he can do when he is healthy. When he has confidence which he seems to be lacking these days, he is a very good player. Sometimes I feel like he would've succeeded elsewhere in a position that suits him and strengths. After the injuries it seems like he's lost his confidence and consequently the confidence that his team-mates instilled in him. What he needs to do, after he is fully healthy and is in great condition is to adapt to the current system either in starting or coming off the bench. Trading him for trading him sake is complete and total bullshit. I'm sure that when he comes back he is going to conform to the teams structure. He does not have a huge ego that needs to satisfied. He can play within the team system and he has done that before. Confidence not laziness or anything like that is his major issue. When he has that confidence he can completely shred defenses. Let him play the 6th man role, don't trade him because of what's going with the team. If he can and when he plays within this team system, you guys will be eating your words. I hope and pray that he does well when he comes back. I'm not hoping that he busts so there is an incentive to trade him like some other posts I've seen on this blog.
          I don't know man, first off, don't get me wrong, he's no Kwame Brown, but he's a bust in the sense that any attempt to make him an integral part of a winning team in Toronto has failed. From trying to pair him with Bosh, to trying to build around him. Kwame Brown doesn't have game, and he was just overvalued. Bargs does have the TALENT to probably be the best PF in the game, and he's not even in the convo for top 5, maybe not even top 10. If you have to constantly make adjustments to try and get one player going...after 6 seasons of trying to do that, at some point you have to assess his time here and call it an utter failure. How many chances do you give him? How many times have you said "if he comes back healthy and confident" or "if he can buy in and give consistent effort"? Make no mistake, regardless of what we get for him, which will be only slightly better if we wait til he's healthy, it is all about addition through subtraction. Waiting may not even get us a better deal, but rather just prove to other teams that he is healthy to pull the trigger on deals that are probably already in the works.

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          • #35
            If bargs comes back and falls right into starters minutes, can we assume that this is BC's doing?
            in masai we trust

            water covers 98% of the earth, Mitchell Robinson covers the other 2%

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            • #36
              I just wanna see him come off the bench for 15 -20 mins a night until he gets traded.
              Eh follow my TWITTER!

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              • #37
                For me it's not a matter of if I want to see him return... it's how they can ship him out without negatively affecting the roster. I'm always very cautious to throw around the phrase 'addition by subtraction'; sports fans use it all the time for players that they don't like, and it's rarely true. But this is one instance where it's probably true. If we could trade him tomorrow for El Zilcho, I'd do it. If we could trade him tomorrow for a remotely useful player on a similar contract, or even a player who'd never actually suit up for the team, I'd do it. If we could trade him for a package that includes prospects/picks, I'd be ecstatic. But if it requires packaging him with a part of our core (DD, ED, JV, TR, KL, possibly LF) and not taking back an equally good long-term asset, I'd rather hang on to him until his value improves or we amnesty him in the summer. Calderon, Anderson, Gray, AJ, Kleiza, Lucas, Peitrus... those guys I'd move to facilitate a deal, but other than Calderon and maybe Anderson and Johnson, they're unlikely to have much value.
                Last edited by octothorp; Sun Dec 30, 2012, 09:03 PM.

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                • #38
                  white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                  I don't know man, first off, don't get me wrong, he's no Kwame Brown, but he's a bust in the sense that any attempt to make him an integral part of a winning team in Toronto has failed. From trying to pair him with Bosh, to trying to build around him. Kwame Brown doesn't have game, and he was just overvalued. Bargs does have the TALENT to probably be the best PF in the game, and he's not even in the convo for top 5, maybe not even top 10. If you have to constantly make adjustments to try and get one player going...after 6 seasons of trying to do that, at some point you have to assess his time here and call it an utter failure. How many chances do you give him? How many times have you said "if he comes back healthy and confident" or "if he can buy in and give consistent effort"? Make no mistake, regardless of what we get for him, which will be only slightly better if we wait til he's healthy, it is all about addition through subtraction. Waiting may not even get us a better deal, but rather just prove to other teams that he is healthy to pull the trigger on deals that are probably already in the works.
                  I can agree that he didn't bring any sustained winnings to Toronto or live up to his full potential but I don't think he is a bust. bust belong to people like the candy man and Adam Morrison. kwame sucks but Still played in the league for ten years, his stature and legacy is on Jordan.

                  but if we are redefining what a bust in the league means into didn't bring sustained winning or championships to the team that drafted there are a lot of busts out there.

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                  • #39
                    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                    I can agree that he didn't bring any sustained winnings to Toronto or live up to his full potential but I don't think he is a bust. bust belong to people like the candy man and Adam Morrison. kwame sucks but Still played in the league for ten years, his stature and legacy is on Jordan.

                    but if we are redefining what a bust in the league means into didn't bring sustained winning or championships to the team that drafted there are a lot of busts out there.
                    +1

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                    • #40
                      DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
                      Kwame plays better D then Bargs LOL
                      Okay. Was that suppose to be funny?

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                      • #41
                        You guys beat the man down when he's not playing good. When he's actually down with injuries and can't play, you guys go in for the kill.

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                        • #42
                          I don't mind Bargnani back. With JV out he can take his place in the starting line up. Even if he doesn't make them better, I don't think he'll make them worse.

                          After all these years it's clear that he's not 1 st overall material but he's far from a bust.
                          Attitude Is A Choice.

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                          • #43
                            T.Dot wrote: View Post
                            You guys beat the man down when he's not playing good. When he's actually down with injuries and can't play, you guys go in for the kill.
                            I like this.
                            Attitude Is A Choice.

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                            • #44
                              The kill? It's basketball, its a game no one gets killed. More like gets paid millions, and at worst will be traded to another team that will pay him millions and perhaps he can start another romance with another market/gm.


                              We just want to try something different. We have been fixing every other position, to please Andrea, our fans have supported him for years, but in the end, it may be better for both of us to part ways. Who knows, maybe a less familiar place will make Andrea a more complete pro.


                              Fans in Toronto are good fans. They just want their team to play better, this 7/8 stuff is making a lot of people realize that we need a banger at PF. The guards can shoot our threes. 2 big men against 1 does not bode well for defense or success. We need a traditional PF down low with this squad.

                              EDIT: No need to shed tears for mercenary's, Andrea probably has lots of basketball in his future, here or in Europe, and will be getting paid big bucks. This is the pros, raptors should not be making emotional choices with players, we want to compete with the other clubs, not be the mother Teressa's of the NBA.
                              Last edited by BasketballCrush; Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:39 AM.

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                              • #45
                                BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
                                The kill? It's basketball, its a game no one gets killed. More like gets paid millions, and at worst will be traded to another team that will pay him millions and perhaps he can start another romance with another market/gm.


                                We just want to try something different. We have been fixing every other position, to please Andrea, our fans have supported him for years, but in the end, it may be better for both of us to part ways. Who knows, maybe a less familiar place will make Andrea a more complete pro.


                                Fans in Toronto are good fans. They just want their team to play better, this 7/8 stuff is making a lot of people realize that we need a banger at PF. The guards can shoot our threes. 2 big men against 1 does not bode well for defense or success. We need a traditional PF down low with this squad.

                                EDIT: No need to shed tears for mercenary's, Andrea probably has lots of basketball in his future, here or in Europe, and will be getting paid big bucks. This is the pros, raptors should not be making emotional choices with players, we want to compete with the other clubs, not be the mother Teressa's of the NBA.
                                Agreed, it's either trade him for valuable assets, amnesty him and use the space to get a quality FA, or keep him and let Casey do his thing unhindered.

                                Either way, it's what's most conducive to winning that counts.

                                As for keeping him, I'm rethinking a bit. Andrea has shown a deft hand in the past when it comes to making good passes. Make him aware that his value isn't in scoring, but spacing the floor, assists and post defence. (based on size)

                                Casey needs to let him know that he is NOT the clutch offensive option. That belongs to TRoss, Demar, KL or AA. Bargs shouldn't have a play run for him for at least 2 months when he comes back. (if he's not traded before then)

                                The raps suck when it's just throw it to Bargs or KL and let them create the bucket.

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