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Chisholm sums up reality of any Rudy Gay deal

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  • BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    "I'm not sure where people are getting "mediocre" when describing Gay's defense."


    from scouting report:
    That's weird, because Dime Magazine claims:

    With Rudy Gay on the floor, the Grizzlies score 106.4 points per 100 possessions, which is good enough to be sixth in the league overall, trailing only the Thunder, Heat, Knicks, Clippers and Spurs. With him off the court, they’re back around their overall average this season at 102.1, via 82games.com. With Gay on the court, the Grizzlies also give up 99.8 points per 100 possessions, which is right in line with their overall defense (99 points given up per 100 possessions). With him off the court, they’re giving up 102.2.
    http://dimemag.com/2013/01/why-the-g...de-rudy-gay/2/

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    • golden wrote: View Post
      I think you answered your own post right there. Gay is not worth the money. We all agree on that. And since when did overpaying-for-mediocre-talent become the M.O. of every GM in the league? lol.
      Gay is legit talent. Not mediocre talent.

      Comment


      • BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
        "I'm not sure where people are getting "mediocre" when describing Gay's defense."


        from scouting report:
        Hhhhmmm....

        2012-13 Los Angeles Lakers Roster and Stats
        PTS/G: 103.2 (4th of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 101.7 (26th of 30)
        SRS: 2.06 (10th of 30) ▪ Pace: 94.8 (3rd of 30)
        Off Rtg: 108.6 (6th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 107.0 (22nd of 30)
        Expected W-L: 19-16 (13th of 30)

        If the Lakers are giving up 101 pts a game, does this mean that Dwight Howard, 37mins a game, and MWP, 35 mins a game are "mediocre" defenders?

        Hhhhmmm.

        Comment


        • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
          Hhhhmmm....

          2012-13 Los Angeles Lakers Roster and Stats
          PTS/G: 103.2 (4th of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 101.7 (26th of 30)
          SRS: 2.06 (10th of 30) ▪ Pace: 94.8 (3rd of 30)
          Off Rtg: 108.6 (6th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 107.0 (22nd of 30)
          Expected W-L: 19-16 (13th of 30)

          If the Lakers are giving up 101 pts a game, does this mean that Dwight Howard, 37mins a game, and MWP, 35 mins a game are "mediocre" defenders?

          Hhhhmmm.
          (Facepalm)

          STATS 101, guys....

          You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

          http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html

          Comment


          • golden wrote: View Post
            I think you answered your own post right there. Gay is not worth the money. We all agree on that. And since when did overpaying-for-mediocre-talent become the M.O. of every GM in the league? lol.
            I think this argument is coming down to subjectivity. True that Gay is not worth his current salary, but in acquiring Gay, BC is not offering him a new contract. If he was a free agent and BC is offering him 82.3 for 5 years on top of Amir's, Bargnani and Calderon's hideous contracts then somebody slap BC. But he's not. He's trading salaries in order to accommodate Gay's salary. And if you keep thinking the Gay is mediocre at best then no salary is going to fit your standards.

            Like i said, thrown in some names that are reachable for the Raps, players who their respective teams are realistically willing to part with, who is better skill-wise than Gay and way cheaper, then you will have me on your corner.

            Comment


            • golden wrote: View Post
              (Facepalm)

              STATS 101, guys....

              You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

              http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html
              (Faceslap)

              So what does Gay's 99 individual DRtg mean vs. Memphis' 98.9? Mediocre?

              http://www.basketball-reference.com/...advanced::none

              I admit im not much of a stats guy, but the lower the number, the better, right?
              Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Jan 11, 2013, 02:55 PM.

              Comment


              • I take it back, was just reposting something in this thread. Never closely checked to confirm the accuracy. Hid D looks good now that I have, based on stats.

                Comment


                • Memphis' D looks great. 7 guys on that team this year have a defensive rating less than 100. No wonder they are the best defensive team in the league.

                  Comment


                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    (Facepalm)

                    STATS 101, guys....

                    You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

                    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html
                    I think i know what youre implying, are you saying that not just because Memphis is a good defensive team that Gay is a good defender?

                    Comment


                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      (Facepalm)

                      STATS 101, guys....

                      You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

                      http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html
                      Golden, I applaud the effort; but at some point you have to accept the fact that around here, people don't change their minds. Haha

                      Both sides have made commendable arguments, but at the end of the day, its all opinion.
                      And while I agree with yours, that Rudy Gay is no saviour, I have to give it up to the other side and accept that having him on the team wouldn't be a bad thing either. However, if we had to give up Demar to get him, then that to me is BAD and counter productive for the team.

                      Comment


                      • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                        We are in partial agreement, hehe

                        In this situation, unfortunately, it seems like in order to get talent, you have to surrender talent. If BC can pull of a Kupchak and acquire Gay like how Kupchak acquired Gasol for scrubs, then by all means! Unfortunately, I dont think (i may be wrong, maybe Gay loves the snow) Toronto is a top-of-the-list destination for Gay like LA was for Gasol, meaning the Lakers had leverage that time and Toronto, at current, does not. So if it means giving up Demar to get Gay, i would have to say yes, only because there is still a fallback with Ross taking over Demar's spot. Ross is already showing that he can play the way Demar is playing, plus a 3 point stroke and much more hustle and effort. If the Raps did not have Ross, i would think twice about giving up Demar for Gay because of the financial implications, but because they have Ross, i wouldnt think twice.
                        Fair enough... and after Gay leaves us after 2 years.....what then??

                        Comment


                        • Memphis also knows Rudy best medically, they may be trying to sell high. Bird did that with JO'Neal to us.


                          Again, I think not a single playoff team will touch that contract or take the chance on a player like Gay (20 missed games each year from a key contributor is not something you can plan for). Not for 16 Million, the package that Memphis is requesting feels steep to me, I don't want to bail them out. They should just keep Gay if he is so good.

                          (also aren't they the ones instigating this trade, feels like someone wants to jump ship and clean their hands)

                          EDIT: If he misses 20 games this year, next year, and plays just like he has toady. This would be a disaster. The up side is that some of you feel that he will be BETTER on our team, and I think that is wishful thinking, he should be better on Memphis who has the better cast, and record to prove it.
                          Last edited by BasketballCrush; Fri Jan 11, 2013, 04:05 PM.

                          Comment


                          • special1 wrote: View Post
                            Fair enough... and after Gay leaves us after 2 years.....what then??
                            You could say that about every player. "What if they leave one day?"

                            Win some games, and sell them a new contract.

                            Comment


                            • BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
                              The up side is that some of you feel that he will be BETTER on our team, and I think that is wishful thinking, he should be better on Memphis who has the better cast, and record to prove it.
                              Based on this logic, wouldn't it make sense for Nash's numbers to be better in LA compared to his previous years in Phoenix? He has much better players in Kobe, Gasol, Howard, etc. when compared to Dudley, Gortat, Frye, etc.

                              Small sample size, but you get my point. Sometimes, it comes down to a team utilizing a player differently that can make a world of difference. Gay going from a 3rd option to a 1st option has that potential. Just look at Harden, and to a lesser extent, Mayo (another player I wish we were in the running for last summer).
                              Last edited by Nilanka; Fri Jan 11, 2013, 04:28 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                Gay going from a 3rd option to a 1st option has that potential.
                                I'm not sure why you keep saying this; Rudy Gay has the highest Usage Rate on the Memphis Grizzlies according to Hoopsdata:

                                Rudy Gay - 25.84%

                                Zach Randolph - 22.74%
                                Mike Conley - 20.13%
                                Marc Gasol - 18.03%

                                He is absolutely their first option. Even their FGA Per Game reflects this:

                                Rudy Gay - 16.6 FGA per game

                                Zach Randolph - 13.9 FGA per game
                                Mike Conley - 11.5 FGA per game
                                Marc Gasol - 10.6 FGA per game
                                Last edited by Joey; Fri Jan 11, 2013, 04:35 PM.

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