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Chisholm sums up reality of any Rudy Gay deal

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  • Alright, same deal as before. Near impossible, 5-team trade, 13 players making it tied for largest in history.... so it is not going to happen - lets be clear on that to start.

    With that said, people (me too!) want Millsap and Gay. Personally, I'm greedy, I want Pekovic too. Here goes but remember LA has to be there and they are getting Bargnani/Calderon while Minnesota is getting Gasol/Jamison.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abzgucz

    Jazz: DeRozan, Wroten
    Lakers: Bargnani, Calderon
    Wolves: Gasol, Jamison
    Grizzlies: Williams, Barea, Davis
    Raptors: Gay, Millsap, Pekovic


    Lowry
    Ross/Fields
    Gay/Anderson
    Millsap/Amir
    Pekovic/JV


    F*ck yeah.... lol. PG is weak but MLE in offseason to worry about that or maybe sign and trade Pekovic for draft rights to Trey Burke - haha, we are dreaming right?


    Bargnani, Calderon, DeRozan, Davis, 2nd round picks

    for

    Gay, Millsap, Pekovic


    would you?

    Comment


    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Alright, same deal as before. Near impossible, 5-team trade, 13 players making it tied for largest in history.... so it is not going to happen - lets be clear on that to start.

      With that said, people (me too!) want Millsap and Gay. Personally, I'm greedy, I want Pekovic too. Here goes but remember LA has to be there and they are getting Bargnani/Calderon while Minnesota is getting Gasol/Jamison.

      http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abzgucz

      Jazz: DeRozan, Wroten
      Lakers: Bargnani, Calderon
      Wolves: Gasol, Jamison
      Grizzlies: Williams, Barea, Davis
      Raptors: Gay, Millsap, Pekovic


      Lowry
      Ross/Fields
      Gay/Anderson
      Millsap/Amir
      Pekovic/JV


      F*ck yeah.... lol. PG is weak but MLE in offseason to worry about that or maybe sign and trade Pekovic for draft rights to Trey Burke - haha, we are dreaming right?


      Bargnani, Calderon, DeRozan, Davis, 2nd round picks

      for

      Gay, Millsap, Pekovic


      would you?
      I guess so. But if we are just making up completely unrealistic trades, you can probably do even better.

      Comment


      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        Scouting report
        + Smooth, long wing with high-arcing jump shot. Can shoot over the top of a defense.
        + Outstanding transition finisher. Shies from contact and doesn't draw fouls.
        + Doesn't see the floor once he starts dribbling. Underachieves defensively.

        Analysis
        Gay has All-Star talent, but his jump shot let him down last season and he hasn't picked up his game in other areas. For starters, there's the jumper. Gay's stroke looks wonderful, but it doesn't go in as often as you think. Last season he made only 33.8 percent of his long 2s, and his 31.2 percent mark on 3s dropped his career mark to just 34.7 percent. He can get his shot off against anyone, and there's value in that, but there's not a lot of evidence that he's an above-average shooter.

        What does have value is when he takes shots near the basket. Gay shot 64 percent at the rim and had a high foul rate for a jump shooter; in particular, if he gets a step going right, he can throw down some vicious dunks. He also ranked in the top quarter of small forwards in both rebounds and blocks. In a related story, he played a lot of small-ball 4 and at 6-foot-9 may continue doing so going forward.

        However, he regressed in other areas. Gay is guilty of dribble blindness, and while he's improved from a few years ago, he still ranked among the bottom 10 small forwards in pure point rating. Defensively, he's had a hard time converting elite athleticism into decent results. His length nets him a lot of blocks and steals, but the Grizzlies gave up 6.0 more points per 100 possessions when he was on the floor.
        Well there it is then. This is not a $19M/yr player. This is Hedo, part II.

        Comment


        • golden wrote: View Post
          Well there it is then. This is not a $19M/yr player. This is Hedo, part II.
          I think we can all agree that Gay isn't worth his contract. But I'm still of the belief that he's a big upgrade over any wing on our roster.

          Comment


          • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
            Scouting report
            + Smooth, long wing with high-arcing jump shot. Can shoot over the top of a defense.
            + Outstanding transition finisher. Shies from contact and doesn't draw fouls.
            + Doesn't see the floor once he starts dribbling. Underachieves defensively.

            Analysis
            Gay has All-Star talent, but his jump shot let him down last season and he hasn't picked up his game in other areas. For starters, there's the jumper. Gay's stroke looks wonderful, but it doesn't go in as often as you think. Last season he made only 33.8 percent of his long 2s, and his 31.2 percent mark on 3s dropped his career mark to just 34.7 percent. He can get his shot off against anyone, and there's value in that, but there's not a lot of evidence that he's an above-average shooter.

            What does have value is when he takes shots near the basket. Gay shot 64 percent at the rim and had a high foul rate for a jump shooter; in particular, if he gets a step going right, he can throw down some vicious dunks. He also ranked in the top quarter of small forwards in both rebounds and blocks. In a related story, he played a lot of small-ball 4 and at 6-foot-9 may continue doing so going forward.

            However, he regressed in other areas. Gay is guilty of dribble blindness, and while he's improved from a few years ago, he still ranked among the bottom 10 small forwards in pure point rating. Defensively, he's had a hard time converting elite athleticism into decent results. His length nets him a lot of blocks and steals, but the Grizzlies gave up 6.0 more points per 100 possessions when he was on the floor.
            I wonder what Hollinger's scouting report on DeMar was like last season and what it's like now. Don't see why a change in scenery and coaching can't have a positive impact on an already good player. Is he worth his contract no, but will he be the best player on the team from day one, yes.

            Comment


            • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              Scouting report
              + Smooth, long wing with high-arcing jump shot. Can shoot over the top of a defense.
              + Outstanding transition finisher. Shies from contact and doesn't draw fouls.
              + Doesn't see the floor once he starts dribbling. Underachieves defensively.

              Analysis
              Gay has All-Star talent, but his jump shot let him down last season and he hasn't picked up his game in other areas. For starters, there's the jumper. Gay's stroke looks wonderful, but it doesn't go in as often as you think. Last season he made only 33.8 percent of his long 2s, and his 31.2 percent mark on 3s dropped his career mark to just 34.7 percent. He can get his shot off against anyone, and there's value in that, but there's not a lot of evidence that he's an above-average shooter.

              What does have value is when he takes shots near the basket. Gay shot 64 percent at the rim and had a high foul rate for a jump shooter; in particular, if he gets a step going right, he can throw down some vicious dunks. He also ranked in the top quarter of small forwards in both rebounds and blocks. In a related story, he played a lot of small-ball 4 and at 6-foot-9 may continue doing so going forward.

              However, he regressed in other areas. Gay is guilty of dribble blindness, and while he's improved from a few years ago, he still ranked among the bottom 10 small forwards in pure point rating. Defensively, he's had a hard time converting elite athleticism into decent results. His length nets him a lot of blocks and steals, but the Grizzlies gave up 6.0 more points per 100 possessions when he was on the floor.
              I think what Hollinger forgot to mention in his analysis is that Gay has to play alongside 2 big men who clog the paint most of the time. Add a PG in Conley who makes a living off the dribble penetration and the pick and pop and Allen who has zero perimeter shooting. Gay's only way to make points is to take perimeter shots, and the chances of making those are obviously less than when operating closer to the basket.

              With the Raptors, Gay will have more shots available to him, in a wider range. From what i've seen, he handles the ball real well, almost 3asts per game is pretty good for a forward. Even if he has the ball, you know he will look to pass to the open man and not always throw up a shot.

              Defensively, i think he's pretty good. 99 DRting is up there. Lebron is 103.

              Comment


              • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                I think what Hollinger forgot to mention in his analysis is that Gay has to play alongside 2 big men who clog the paint most of the time. Add a PG in Conley who makes a living off the dribble penetration and the pick and pop and Allen who has zero perimeter shooting. Gay's only way to make points is to take perimeter shots, and the chances of making those are obviously less than when operating closer to the basket.

                With the Raptors, Gay will have more shots available to him, in a wider range. From what i've seen, he handles the ball real well, almost 3asts per game is pretty good for a forward. Even if he has the ball, you know he will look to pass to the open man and not always throw up a shot.

                Defensively, i think he's pretty good. 99 DRting is up there. Lebron is 103.
                +1

                We can't simply look at his stats in a vacuum and say, "he's not much better than what we've got". We have to look at his skill set, and the circumstances surrounding his career to see Gay's value in Toronto.

                Gay's game is so extremely well-rounded. He may not excel in any one category, but there are very few holes in his game. He can shoot, he can pass, he can drive, he can defend, he can rebound, etc. A player of his talent-level doesn't come by often.

                Comment


                • I still think that staying with our wings and somehow turning Bargs into a Derrick Williams is a good thing for this franchise moving forward. That and I don't want to change my avatar and signature.
                  “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

                  Comment


                  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    I think we can all agree that Gay isn't worth his contract. But I'm still of the belief that he's a big upgrade over any wing on our roster.
                    That's the whole point right there. Just because a (debatably) better guy is available than the crap you have now, and you happen to have the financial means to get him, doesn't mean that you just go ahead and overpay to do it. That's been BCo's m.o. the entire time he's been here. This is how franchises get stuck on the hamster wheel between the lottery and mediocrity for years. 7 and counting for BCo...

                    Comment


                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      That's the whole point right there. Just because a (debatably) better guy is available than the crap you have now, and you happen to have the financial means to get him, doesn't mean that you just go ahead and overpay to do it. That's been BCo's m.o. the entire time he's been here. This is how franchises get stuck on the hamster wheel between the lottery and mediocrity for years. 7 and counting for BCo...
                      Holding onto cap space is a good strategy in theory. But when have we ever used it wisely before? On Kapono, Turkoglu, or Fields?

                      I don't think Gay is worth $17 million, but I do think he's worth somewhere in the $12-15 range (not that far off). Get rid of some of our existing ugly contracts (like Bargnani, Kleiza, Calderon, and to a lesser extent, Fields and Amir), and Gay's contract is more than manageable for 2 years. By year 3 (in a worst-case scenario), if things don't work out, he's a $19 million expiring contract. Not franchise-crippling by any means.

                      As for the hamster wheel, we're already there. Not crappy enough for a top-3 pick, and not good enough for the playoffs. The only way out of this hole is to commit another 2-3 years of "tanking", or acquire talent via trade. The latter seems like the more likely option at this point.

                      Comment


                      • Voice of Reason

                        Nilanka wrote: View Post
                        I think we can all agree that Gay isn't worth his contract. But I'm still of the belief that he's a big upgrade over any wing on our roster.
                        Nilanka - I dont think the nay-sayers think that he isnt an upgrade..... we just dont think he's that much of an upgrade (moreso we dont think his price tag is worth it). We're actually pretty troubled by his shooting (if you can't make jumpers with Randolph, Gasol, Conley on your team - why do you think he'll be able to shoot better being the clear #1 option on the Raptors???)

                        Upgrade? Sure.....BIG upgrade?? Stats and other analysis says NOPE

                        Comment


                        • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                          I still think that staying with our wings and somehow turning Bargs into a Derrick Williams is a good thing for this franchise moving forward. That and I don't want to change my avatar and signature.
                          I think our wing rotation is fine. DeMar, Fields, Ross and AA are all fine (nothing spectacular but decent). I can't stand Kleiza and we all know about Bargnani.. Acy is a garbage time player and so that leaves us with Davis and Amir (who is actually playing center).

                          Unless if you like Fields/Kleiza as a 4, I think we need to upgrade the 4 spot.

                          I would love a Bargs for Millsap deal. I'd rather have Millsap over Williams who is probably more a 3 than a 4.

                          Comment


                          • golden wrote: View Post
                            That's the whole point right there. Just because a (debatably) better guy is available than the crap you have now, and you happen to have the financial means to get him, doesn't mean that you just go ahead and overpay to do it. That's been BCo's m.o. the entire time he's been here. This is how franchises get stuck on the hamster wheel between the lottery and mediocrity for years. 7 and counting for BCo...
                            But isnt that the M.O. of every GM in the league? Find ways to improve the team and one of the ways of doing it is to get players better than the crap (according to you) that you currently have? To me, cap space is like a office spending voucher. Initially, you think, wow, i have all this money to spend for the whole year, so i better save it. You find something worthy of buying, you say to yourself, hhhmm, maybe i can get something better, or cheaper, so you wait. And wait. And wait. Till the time comes when the voucher is about to expire and youre stuck and forced to spend it on things that you dont really need. IMO, if you have the money, spend it on the first best thing that comes along. If you think the Raptors have other more surefire prospects than Gay, let me know.

                            Comment


                            • special1 wrote: View Post
                              Nilanka - I dont think the nay-sayers think that he isnt an upgrade..... we just dont think he's that much of an upgrade (moreso we dont think his price tag is worth it). We're actually pretty troubled by his shooting (if you can't make jumpers with Randolph, Gasol, Conley on your team - why do you think he'll be able to shoot better being the clear #1 option on the Raptors???)

                              Upgrade? Sure.....BIG upgrade?? Stats and other analysis says NOPE
                              I think Gay is definitely a BIG upgrade over Fields, AA, Ross (at the moment) and Kleiza. Skill and statistics wise. Stats-wise he is currently at par with Demar, but considering Demar is currently the #1 option on his team and Gay's rank with Memphis fluctuates on a nightly basis, i dont see a comparison there, also, Gay and Demar have different positions so i dont see their game overlapping each other's.

                              The guy has taken 393 jumpshots this season. 393!! Because the memphis bigs are playing in the paint. You cant possibly expect the guy to increase his percentage if he keeps shooting far from the basket.

                              Comment


                              • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                                But isnt that the M.O. of every GM in the league? Find ways to improve the team and one of the ways of doing it is to get players better than the crap (according to you) that you currently have? To me, cap space is like a office spending voucher. Initially, you think, wow, i have all this money to spend for the whole year, so i better save it. You find something worthy of buying, you say to yourself, hhhmm, maybe i can get something better, or cheaper, so you wait. And wait. And wait. Till the time comes when the voucher is about to expire and youre stuck and forced to spend it on things that you dont really need. IMO, if you have the money, spend it on the first best thing that comes along. If you think the Raptors have other more surefire prospects than Gay, let me know.
                                +1

                                Comment

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