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Revisited: Blow it up..... Seriously?? (Part 2)

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  • #91
    From Alex Kennedy at HoopsWorld.com:

    Toronto Raptors

    The Raptors have been mentioned in trade rumors since the beginning of the season because they have several players that they’re looking to move. Andrea Bargnani hasn’t lived up to the hype and he failed to become the franchise player that Toronto expected him to be. In fact, the Raptors have played better at times when Bargnani wasn’t on the court. Jose Calderon and Kyle Lowry are the other two players that the Raptors will likely shop. They’ll likely trade one or the other before the deadline. Lowry has come back down to earth after playing extremely well early in the season and he has had trouble staying healthy. Calderon, on the other hand, is an unrestricted free agent after this season and will likely walk if he’s not given the starting job. The Raptors will likely have to trade one or the other because their point-guard-by-committee plan hasn’t worked. Trade Lowry and re-sign Calderon as the starter. Trade Calderon and insert Lowry back into the starting lineup. Either way, Toronto has to trade one because it doesn’t make sense to have two starting-caliber point guards on the roster when they have many other holes that need to be filled. The Raptors are definitely a team to watch as the deadline approaches.

    Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-who...QM7m5rvyeHs.99

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    • #92
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      From Alex Kennedy at HoopsWorld.com:
      Makes sense, I mostly agree. But I don't think BC is shopping Lowry. Maybe he's listening to offers, but I doubt he's shopping him the way he is with Jose

      Comment


      • #93
        Shock: I am in the boat advocating trade Calderon.


        Take a look at the 2013 free agents: http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents
        Who is coming to Toronto? Jefferson? No. Smith? No. Millsap? I wish but he is going to Indiana: book it. And when I say they aren't coming to Toronto it is not because of any small market/blame Canada/no ESPN/funny money/metric system excuses. It is because Toronto is still not showing they are on the track of winning. Top free agents are looking for money and a chance to win. Toronto is not going to have a lot of money to throw around as of now and while things are looking better now that Casey is preaching some defense again, there is a long way to go to respectability. Toronto's free agent prospects are going to be guys looking for MLE action, players like Dorrell Wright or Corey Brewer.


        This trade is a good example of what I am talking about when I say, "Blow it up!" and "Take other teams sh!t for prospects and picks!"

        In doing a trade like this Toronto is taking themselves out of contention for the big free agent prizes but they are adding the type of assets I would be looking to acquire. Everyone's trades with Utah have Millsap or Jefferson coming back. I don't think that is going to happen. First off, Jefferson is going to be resigned. Secondly, Millsap is going to be in Indiana on a sign and trade for Granger (my 100% total speculation - both players fit the other teams like a glove right now, West is a FA and Millsap is 5 years younger than West who will fit beautifully with George at SF and Hibbert at C.... but back to the Raptors). Utah needs a PG right now so here goes:

        http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d4om3op

        Utah: Calderon, 2 second round picks over next 2 drafts
        Toronto: Williams, Burks, 2013 1st round pick from GSW and UTA (top 3 protected).

        Why?

        Utah sheds $7.5M in an unspectacular wing who is going to pick up his player option for next year. This helps in resigning Jefferson and possibly resigning Millsap or taking on big salary in a trade (say, like, for Granger). They gain a starting PG and make a run at the playoffs which they are currently 0.5 games out of 8th and 2.5 games out of 6th.

        Toronto gets a legit SF who can play PF in small ball in Williams. He isn't great but he is no worse than anything currently on the roster and a big step up from Kleiza (amnesty!). Williams will also be in a contract year which is always good for a 26/27 year old who does have talent. He is then another expiring contract next season when the more punitive luxury tax is going to kick in. Burks is a player who skill set is what Toronto lacks: a guy who can penetrate and get to the hole off the bounce. Utah is trying to make Burks a PG which I think is futile.

        The draft picks are self explanatory. Maybe the 2 first round picks (13-18 and 20-25) are greedy but they are getting 2 fairly high 2nd round picks in return, shedding $7.5M off their books, and getting a starting PG.


        Anyways, this is the type of trade I am hoping/expecting/looking for Toronto make. Bad contract, prospect, pick(s).

        Comment


        • #94
          After last nights game against the Nets I have a few more thoughts:

          I was never off the "its a talent issue" idea, bust just want to reiterate: THIS TEAM LACKS TALENT! IT IS A TALENT ISSUE!

          The Raptors go 10 deep with 10 mediocre NBA players. When they show the starting lineups on tv, when do the Raps ever have the better player at even 1 position? Rarely.

          I couldn't escape the fact that this team reminded me of the NY Knicks pre-Melo, and have states such. 10 players that together COULD gel and play well, but none really stand out. If you package a bunch of them, you could recieve 1 all-star or borderline all-star. Now however, I can't shake the idea that this team might be a combination of NY Knicks pre-Melo, and the Pacers pre-David West (A couple of keeper, complimentary pieces. Rarely a FA destination). If the Raps could trade Davis, one of the PGs, and Demar (or a package similar) for an above average wing player, I would definitely do it. Even if they traded that package for a bloated contract that has a #1 pick attached to it I'd be ok with that! Come to think of it, if the Raps traded for a good wing, then signed West as a FA, wouldn't that make them loads better? I just think there has to be changes. Staying static with what hasn't led to wins (Bargs, Calderon, and to a lesser extent Derozan) and a bunch of middling players isn't going to help.

          The biggest change of all HAS to be getting rid of Colangelo too. Don't let the easy part of the schedule that gifted the Raps a 10-2 record fool you. I won't list his "accomplishments" here. Again, I point you to Matt52's avatar. It says almost everything you need to know.

          And as for anyone thinking the Raptors can make the playoffs? Lets not be silly. I'm a FAN, I want them to make the playoffs. But it ain't happening. Right now they're 14-24, and they had to play 8 games over .500 to get to that. To get to the playoffs they'll need to be right around .500 at the finish. Anyone really think they'll be able to play another 10 games over .500 as the season gets a little harder again? Me neither.

          Comment


          • #95
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            From Alex Kennedy at HoopsWorld.com:
            The problem with moving the PGs is: first, Calderon has been on the block for years and they haven't been able, or willing to do so for the return, to move him. Lowry just was brought in at the expense of a top ten pick. If he is traded they need to get that kind of value back. Think anyone gives up a lotto pick for Lowry in the next month?

            The Raptors may have players they want to move, I'm just not sure they can get enough value in return for any of them.

            Comment


            • #96
              slaw wrote: View Post
              The problem with moving the PGs is: first, Calderon has been on the block for years and they haven't been able, or willing to do so for the return, to move him. Lowry just was brought in at the expense of a top ten pick. If he is traded they need to get that kind of value back. Think anyone gives up a lotto pick for Lowry in the next month?

              The Raptors may have players they want to move, I'm just not sure they can get enough value in return for any of them.
              Well, that's kind of the whole issue with Colangelo overpaying and overbidding against himself all the time. You can't expect us to get better value or equal value in return for all the mistakes he's made. Just have to cut your losses and move on.
              your pal,
              ebrian

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              • #97
                slaw wrote: View Post
                The problem with moving the PGs is: first, Calderon has been on the block for years and they haven't been able, or willing to do so for the return, to move him. Lowry just was brought in at the expense of a top ten pick. If he is traded they need to get that kind of value back. Think anyone gives up a lotto pick for Lowry in the next month?

                The Raptors may have players they want to move, I'm just not sure they can get enough value in return for any of them.
                The issue with Calderon was always his contract. Now it is expiring with less than half this year to be paid (well, by deadline). The trade I proposed above would have the Raps taking on a bad contract to get a prospect and picks. For a team with playoff aspirations and in need of a PG, Calderon is pretty enticing.... *cough*UTAH*cough*

                Comment


                • #98
                  I think last night's game against the Bulls really demonstrates Matt's earlier comment that Lowry is a better talent, while Jose works better with less.

                  Against the Bulls last night, Jose and most of the team was quite useless. They don't have the talent to compete against an elite team defence like the Bulls and so they struggled to do anything.

                  When Lowry was in the game, he was taking it at the Bulls and was the main reason they were in the game. (AA had a great game and was aggressive too) Lowry is a better talent and that is necessary to compete against the best.

                  One thing that drove me nuts last night, Lowry would drive to the hoop, even drawing double teams, and the rest of the Raps would stand around on the perimeter. Not a single player cut to the hoop, even though Lowry was getting doubled on the baseline. Anyone who cuts to the hoop gets hit with the pass and an easy dunk for 2 points, but the team just stood around and watched.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • #99
                    Matt52 may be right (surprisingly doesnt hurt to say it)

                    Axel wrote: View Post
                    I think last night's game against the Bulls really demonstrates Matt's earlier comment that Lowry is a better talent, while Jose works better with less.

                    Against the Bulls last night, Jose and most of the team was quite useless. They don't have the talent to compete against an elite team defence like the Bulls and so they struggled to do anything.

                    When Lowry was in the game, he was taking it at the Bulls and was the main reason they were in the game. (AA had a great game and was aggressive too) Lowry is a better talent and that is necessary to compete against the best.

                    One thing that drove me nuts last night, Lowry would drive to the hoop, even drawing double teams, and the rest of the Raps would stand around on the perimeter. Not a single player cut to the hoop, even though Lowry was getting doubled on the baseline. Anyone who cuts to the hoop gets hit with the pass and an easy dunk for 2 points, but the team just stood around and watched.
                    After watching the past two games.......

                    I must admit that Matt52 is on the right track (you too Nilanka - even though we disagree with your assesment of DD). We need to give Lowry more time as he's clearly the better talent and just needs more help (needs to be surrounded by more talent).

                    I am not the type of person to change my mind with each passing game....BUT I can't ignore the truth. Lowry's heart is incredible.....he's what we need moving forward.

                    Before this week i was fine with either....now i'm sticking with Lowry. This is not a slight on Jose, because i think he's a really good player for us. BUT...

                    I am extremely impressed with how Lowry has handled coming off the bench and I think he deserves to be the starting point guard from here on out. I just dont think THIS team can afford to have a talented player like him playing so-so minutes. He needs to play 30+ minutes a game and he should be setting the tone.

                    We need Jose to play great off the bench......NOT like he played earlier in the year off the bench. NO excuses!! Get it done.

                    Comment


                    • Axel wrote: View Post
                      I think last night's game against the Bulls really demonstrates Matt's earlier comment that Lowry is a better talent, while Jose works better with less.

                      Against the Bulls last night, Jose and most of the team was quite useless. They don't have the talent to compete against an elite team defence like the Bulls and so they struggled to do anything.

                      When Lowry was in the game, he was taking it at the Bulls and was the main reason they were in the game. (AA had a great game and was aggressive too) Lowry is a better talent and that is necessary to compete against the best.

                      One thing that drove me nuts last night, Lowry would drive to the hoop, even drawing double teams, and the rest of the Raps would stand around on the perimeter. Not a single player cut to the hoop, even though Lowry was getting doubled on the baseline. Anyone who cuts to the hoop gets hit with the pass and an easy dunk for 2 points, but the team just stood around and watched.
                      You can really see with AA's skill set how important it is to be able to create off the dribble. For the life of me I can't believe how he 1) gets by his man, and 2) gets his shot in the lane against NBA competition (actually, joking, I do know: he has great change of pace, handle, and body control). I don't mean to put AA down but he really is not what I would call an athletic player.... skilled and intelligent, yes; athletic, no.

                      Comment


                      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        I don't mean to put AA down but he really is not what I would call an athletic player.... skilled and intelligent, yes; athletic, no.
                        Amazing what NBA size and determination can get you. At 6'6' 223lbs, he could teach DD a lot
                        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                        Comment


                        • Anderson can create off the dribble better than DeMar. DeMar needs to learn that legendary jab step and incredible drives to the rim. The dude is amazing at getting to the rim off the dribble, uses that euro step to perfection. If demar had that, he'd be deadly

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                          • What do you guys call euro step? Can you post me a video or something? I want to see it, haha
                            Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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                            • RandomGuy wrote: View Post
                              What do you guys call euro step? Can you post me a video or something? I want to see it, haha
                              Its a jab in one direction after collecting the ball, but your following step is the other way

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                              • Watch anytime Ginobili goes to the basket. Google Rubio Nike moves or something like that for explanation video.

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