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  • Craig wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure what people want from players. There isn't a player in the NBA that can take a team past one round. You need a team, a well coached and motivated TEAM. Rudy Gay is a player that could play 3 on every single contender there is in the NBA right now. Will Rudy Gay win you the Championship? Hell no, neither will Lebron James, Kobe, or Howard.

    Gay, nor any other raptor need be an absolute superstar, he is a star and thats enough. If the team can play as a well oiled machine, efficiency will go up across the board, and a guy like Gay will start to look pretty damn good.
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Your point - as good as it is - totally ignores the realities and restrictions the Raptors face in an attempt to improve due to the complexities of the CBA.
    Geez man, what does the CBA have to do with Craig's post? Just my opinion, but you need to try to get over the obsession with CBA/tank/super-draft. There are other topics.

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    • p00ka wrote: View Post
      Geez man, what does the CBA have to do with Craig's post? Just my opinion, but you need to try to get over the obsession with CBA/tank/super-draft. There are other topics.
      Geez man, what does your obsession with moderating me have to do with Craig's or my own post? Just my opinion, but you need to try to get over the obsession with sticking your nose in discussion. For once I would like to see you bring something to the discussion versus attempt to kick a hornets nest.

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      • Nilanka wrote: View Post
        It's human nature for effort to correlate with incentives.
        If money is their only incentive, they shouldn't be in the NBA.
        Twitter - @thekid_it

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        • isaacthompson wrote: View Post
          If money is their only incentive, they shouldn't be in the NBA.
          Just because someone is tall and athletic doesn't mean they actually love the game.

          For many guys in the NBA, it is a job - and little else.

          How many people get up everyday and go to a job that they absolutely love? My guess is very few. No different than the NBA - well, maybe a bit more than the average Joe

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          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Geez man, what does your obsession with moderating me have to do with Craig's or my own post? Just my opinion, but you need to try to get over the obsession with sticking your nose in discussion. For once I would like to see you bring something to the discussion versus attempt to kick a hornets nest.
            Yeah, sorry, you're right. So, in an attempt to bring something to the discussion, I need to understand what the CBA has to do with Craig's post, that he apparently ignored.

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            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              Your point - as good as it is - totally ignores the realities and restrictions the Raptors face in an attempt to improve due to the complexities of the CBA.
              and this is the inevitable truth.

              There are only so many possessions, minutes and $s to go around.

              To win a championship or be a contender a team does need, well, a team of players. But that team is made of up of X players making Y dollars while playing Z minutes. All of which effect the teams ability to win games.

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              • p00ka wrote: View Post
                Yeah, sorry, you're right. So, in an attempt to bring something to the discussion, I need to understand what the CBA has to do with Craig's post, that he apparently ignored.
                As I said previously, Craig has a good point/post.

                However, he is talking about creating a TEAM. A team is comprised of talented players. There is no question Rudy Gay is a talented player that could play on every contender in the NBA right now. However a contender has other very talented parts. Without having games played yet, I think it is safe to say the Raptors are not a sure-fire bet to make the postseason (let alone be a contender) and currently lack upper tier talent elsewhere on the team. So how do the Raptors add the talent to the team when you want to keep the core they have in place (i.e. trades are tough) and lack financial flexibility (i.e. free agency is out minus exceptions)?

                Creating and building a team (ie. acquiring talent) is regulated in every facet by the CBA.

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                • Craiger wrote: View Post
                  ...To win a championship or be a contender a team does need, well, a team of players. But that team is made of up of X players making Y dollars while playing Z minutes. All of which effect the teams ability to win games.

                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  ...Creating and building a team (ie. acquiring talent) is regulated in every facet by the CBA.
                  Pretty much wraps it up in a nutshell. The Raps cannot succeed with Rudy, on an extended contract at market value, Lowry, on an extended contract at market value, DeMar on his current contract, fields on his current contract, and extended JV at market value and the kind of free agent acquisitions that will be needed to make then relevant in a hunt for the second round.

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                  • The Grass is always Greener on the other side man.

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                    • Craig wrote: View Post
                      The Grass is always Greener on the other side man.
                      Unless you live next to Alberta...then the grass is always none existant and being torn up in search of disgustingly dirty oil...wait is this my Environmental Crusaders forum?....I'm so lost
                      For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                      • Zach Lowe's (Grantland) All-Intriguing Team:

                        Rudy Gay, Toronto Raptors

                        Watching tape of the Rudy-era Toronto offense, I can't help but think of George Karl's teams in Denver. Those clubs often featured an undersize water bug point guard (Ty Lawson or Kyle Lowry) and two wings with unreliable outside shots. Both Denver and Rudy-era Toronto featured a ton of pick-and-rolls all over the floor as well as plays on which those so-so shooting wings would fly off sideline screens and catch the ball on the move.

                        And that's where the similarities ended — at the moment of that catch. Denver's wings knew they had to keep the motion going — hesitation meant death, and benching. Even if they had no obvious opening, Andre Iguodala or Danilo Gallinari would catch the ball, maintain speed, and either try to drive into the lane or pitch the ball out to the next man in line.

                        Gay and DeMar DeRozan, trade candidates if Toronto plays poorly over a very tough first 35 games, don't operate this way. They like to either launch midrange shots off the catch or hold the ball, pause, and survey the scene, giving the defense a chance to reset itself.

                        Good things might happen if they just kept the damn thing moving. Both are artful at slithering through tight spaces on the way to the rim. Neither is a good passer, but they can at least make the functional pass, and DeRozan got better last season at understanding where his teammates were on the floor.2

                        Look, Gay's never going to live up to his contract or work as a major plus on defense. Toronto just needs him to be average on that end and refine his shoot/pass/dribble choices a bit on offense. It will help if he can rediscover the 3-point stroke that seems to have vanished since his shoulder injury in 2011. Gay shot an unthinkable 9-of-44 on spot-up triples as a Raptor, but he had eye surgery in the summer to correct his vision, and he could get plenty of decent looks from deep with Lowry and DeRozan doing their fair share of pick-and-roll work. Toronto also played Gay at power forward some toward the end of last season, and with only three reliable bigs on the roster, they should revisit that style.

                        Gay has a $19.3 million player option for next season, and though Toronto expected him to opt out when it traded for him last season, the league is still trying to suss out Gay's plans — and his trade value.
                        http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ntriguing-team

                        For what it's worth, Bargnani also made the list....

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                        • Nilanka, interesting find. I remember watching one of the behind the scenes shows on the Nuggets and George Karl kept hammering home the faster, faster, keep the ball moving, quick decisions, concept over and over and over.

                          There was a play last year right at the start of a game (think it was the first play) where Toronto ran a great cequence and Derozan caught the ball wide open at the three point line, his defender killed off a screen and the defence totally disorganized. But he caught the ball facing away from the rim, settled, slowly turned and by the time he was facing the basket ready to do anything, the defence was totally reset and the play was toast. That happened far too often last year but I'm not sure if it's a function of coaching or the players just being set in their ways and manners.

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                          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            Zach Lowe's (Grantland) All-Intriguing Team:



                            http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ntriguing-team

                            For what it's worth, Bargnani also made the list....
                            I feel like Gay and Bargs are two guys who could be on that list pretty much every season they've been in the league. And another guy on that list, Evan Turner, feels like that kind of guy too.

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                            • slaw wrote: View Post
                              Nilanka, interesting find. I remember watching one of the behind the scenes shows on the Nuggets and George Karl kept hammering home the faster, faster, keep the ball moving, quick decisions, concept over and over and over.

                              There was a play last year right at the start of a game (think it was the first play) where Toronto ran a great cequence and Derozan caught the ball wide open at the three point line, his defender killed off a screen and the defence totally disorganized. But he caught the ball facing away from the rim, settled, slowly turned and by the time he was facing the basket ready to do anything, the defence was totally reset and the play was toast. That happened far too often last year but I'm not sure if it's a function of coaching or the players just being set in their ways and manners.
                              Bosh was guilty of it too.

                              On the one hand, I understand the idea of wanting to survey the defense and only then, make the right play.

                              But when the defense is flat-footed, or left scrambling for a brief moment, good offensive teams (like Denver) don't waste those opportunities.

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                              • Craig wrote: View Post
                                The Grass is always Greener on the other side man.
                                Very true.

                                But it really is greener on the other side when your own lawn is covered with dog poop (bloated contracts) and huge yellow stains (little upper-tier talent as your cornerstones).

                                If I was happy with an average lawn (7-11), I wouldn't bother looking at the neighbour's (contenders). But I do want the greenest of the green and really thick too (I want to be a contender). I'm not happy to just cut the grass every week or two and settle for mediocrity (borderline playoff team).

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