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  • #16
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Ross needs some damn time. Tomorrow night is when it should start, just give him the green light
    And Valanciunas. JV for some reason only played 11mins last night
    Mamba Mentality

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    • #17
      TRex wrote: View Post
      And Valanciunas. JV for some reason only played 11mins last night
      Seriously....how many more times will we have to see the Bargnani-Fields frontcourt (damn that's hard to type)? Can we at least start a pool so someone can gain from it?

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      • #18
        Burnit482 wrote: View Post
        The reason we dont see him as untouchable is because our coaching staff refuse to give him minutes. Maybe he is not deserving i do not know but everything i've seen so far the kid just needs some run and experience. Looking at him on the bench he looks so demoralized and rightfully so. The hardest part for me to understand is how after ross or JV make a mistake they are yanked, when AA does whatever he pleases Casey decides to keep him out there for what seems like forever. This also goes for AB who lets just hope we are trying to increase trade value and still don't believe in him because the dude is garbage.

        I am a huge fan of the coaching staff, but they (or casey) needs to go. Our offence does not suit our players so we either need new team or new coach...

        Untouchables Ross, JV, Gay and imo demar. Everyone hates on demar for no reason. Please explain to me why you hate demar? people said he couldn't play with Gay now hes shining with him, said he couldn't pass hes passing, his shot has improved every year same with his play making skills, his handle has improved but still needs some work. The kid is hardest worker on team and people want to get rid of him because he works his ass off and loves TO ? ... i dont get it...
        I think NO ONE should be untouchable (EVERYONE should be available for the right price - if it improves our team)

        However, ONLY Rudy, JV and Demar (a VERY good 2nd or 3rd option) should be considered untouchable.

        I dont get all this love for an unproven rookie in Ross. I actually wish we could've sent him to Memphis instead of ED. I guess they weren't interested in Ross (I think Ross would learn a lot from someone like Tony Allen). Oh well......I really hope Ross turns out to prove my wishes wrong!

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        • #19
          NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
          What exactly is the right price? Unless we're getting back a perennial all star Ross ain't going anywhere.
          Are you crazy??? I would trade Ross JUST to get rid of Bargnani! Lets be HONEST here..... Who here wanted Ross over Barnes or Lillard or Drummond????

          Raptor Fans fall in love with our players tooo easily. If Ross was as good as you thought he was - Why can't he find time on the court?? Do you realize that we're like 15 games below .500?

          I want Ross to turn into a perennial all-star too! BUT Im not willing to wait 7 years like we did for bargnani! Ross NEEDS a whole lot of improving to do! I really hope he does BUT I would trade him faster than I would trade JV OR DD if it could bring us back something good (in a package).

          Keep in mind we still have fields, DD and Rudy to make up for the loss of Ross.

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          • #20
            special1 wrote: View Post
            Are you crazy??? I would trade Ross JUST to get rid of Bargnani! Lets be HONEST here..... Who here wanted Ross over Barnes or Lillard or Drummond????

            Raptor Fans fall in love with our players tooo easily. If Ross was as good as you thought he was - Why can't he find time on the court?? Do you realize that we're like 15 games below .500?

            I want Ross to turn into a perennial all-star too! BUT Im not willing to wait 7 years like we did for bargnani! Ross NEEDS a whole lot of improving to do! I really hope he does BUT I would trade him faster than I would trade JV OR DD if it could bring us back something good (in a package).

            Keep in mind we still have fields, DD and Rudy to make up for the loss of Ross.
            Ross is not getting the mins becaue the coach prefers a veteran player like Anderson over a rookie like Ross. We all know what Ross is capable of. Earlier in the season before the Gay trade, Ross was one of our best player off the bench. But now that the Raps are pretty much out of the running for a playoff spot Ross and JV better get some heavy playing time these next 20+ whatever games.
            Mamba Mentality

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            • #21
              special1 wrote: View Post
              Are you crazy??? I would trade Ross JUST to get rid of Bargnani! Lets be HONEST here..... Who here wanted Ross over Barnes or Lillard or Drummond????

              Raptor Fans fall in love with our players tooo easily. If Ross was as good as you thought he was - Why can't he find time on the court?? Do you realize that we're like 15 games below .500?

              I want Ross to turn into a perennial all-star too! BUT Im not willing to wait 7 years like we did for bargnani! Ross NEEDS a whole lot of improving to do! I really hope he does BUT I would trade him faster than I would trade JV OR DD if it could bring us back something good (in a package).

              Keep in mind we still have fields, DD and Rudy to make up for the loss of Ross.
              First bold: Only Drummond was available, so that's stupid, that's like being upset that we drafted Demar instead of Harden. I would never take Drummond, thinking from draft perspective, considering JV was coming in. I think JV has much more skill, but Drummond has much more athleticism. As a long term investment, I'll take skill over athleticism. Drummond also had some character questions in the draft, so I'm sure when you add that, it was a non-starter to management, as it should've been given the other holes on this team at the time. Ross was still the best wing available at their pick, and there were not other PGs behind Lillard available. I suppose you could argue they should've drafted a PF, but with Bargs, Amir and Ed, that would be very difficult to do.*(and oh wait, they did, Acy)

              Second bold: Raptors fans also can have "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. Everyone is always the right fit until things fall apart. Every PG we brought in against Jose was "more talented' until they couldn't win the starting job because they obviously weren't. People getting overexcited by acquisitions like Fred Jones and Juan Dixon.....Seriously...Ross is a young high potential player on a rookie scale contract. It is a gigantic gamble to trade him away unless you are getting an all-star player (not a borderline one, a genuine one).

              Finally: Who says it would take 7 years? It's only been a few months fer chrissake...even perennial all-stars don't always show it in their rookie year. Have some patience. He has boatloads of athleticisim and more skill than Demar had as a rookie, so I'd give him some time. Unless we're getting an all-star who still produces, it is really risky and absurd, IMO, to trade Ross.
              Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Mar 3, 2013, 08:41 PM.

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              • #22
                first off, no one is going to give up a young talented PF prospect, for an underperforming bargnani and his overpaid contract.

                Secondly, you suggest: "Terrence Ross needs to be packaged along with our expiring for a backup SG, someone in the mold of Reddick who can hit open jumpers or beyond the arc." dafuq? isn't terrence ross that player to begin with?

                thirdly, it is way to early to categorize what valanciunas's celing is. (sabonis gortat ilgauskas, all white but different style of player)

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                • #23
                  Red and White wrote: View Post
                  Id take James Harden and a second round draft pick.

                  In seriousness, I do not understand why some consider Amir to be untouchable. The whole point of someone being "untouchable" is that they would be very difficult, if not impossible, to replace. Guys like Lowry (who the team shopped at one point of this season), Amir, and to some extent Demar (even though I like him and Gay together), are all "touchable".

                  JV, Ross and Gay are the only ones I would deem untouchable, but that does not mean all the other guys I want to trade.
                  Oh man, James Harden. I actually LOL'd and my kid said, "Daddy, why are you laughing, did you read something totally unreasonable on the internet?".

                  If you don't rate Amir or Ross, why do you think Houston would? And to top it off they'll give you their prized free-agent signing who is widely considered to be a max-player back in return.

                  Trading Amir makes zero sense. He's one of the most consistent players on the team, if not the. I agree he's not a starter but he's a productive NBA player who has learned how to play consistently, which is the biggest step one can take. He is known quantity who you can rely on. That, and he's got a reasonable contract given what the going rates are. You don't trade a guy like that.

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                  • #24
                    special1 wrote: View Post
                    Are you crazy??? I would trade Ross JUST to get rid of Bargnani! Lets be HONEST here..... Who here wanted Ross over Barnes or Lillard or Drummond????

                    Raptor Fans fall in love with our players tooo easily. If Ross was as good as you thought he was - Why can't he find time on the court?? Do you realize that we're like 15 games below .500?

                    I want Ross to turn into a perennial all-star too! BUT Im not willing to wait 7 years like we did for bargnani! Ross NEEDS a whole lot of improving to do! I really hope he does BUT I would trade him faster than I would trade JV OR DD if it could bring us back something good (in a package).

                    Keep in mind we still have fields, DD and Rudy to make up for the loss of Ross.
                    I wanted him over Drummond not Lillard or Barnes i'll admit that. Btw the reason Ross isn't getting time is the same reason Valanciunas isn't, Dwane Casey thinks we still have a chance at the playoffs.

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                    • #25
                      white men can't jump wrote: View Post

                      Finally: Who says it would take 7 years?
                      It takes three years for a player to tap the majority of their potential; take a look at almost any player's career stats and you'll see. After that, it's mostly incremental improvement.
                      "Stop eating your sushi."
                      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                      - Jack Armstrong

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                      • #26
                        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        First bold: Only Drummond was available, so that's stupid, that's like being upset that we drafted Demar instead of Harden. I would never take Drummond, thinking from draft perspective, considering JV was coming in. I think JV has much more skill, but Drummond has much more athleticism. As a long term investment, I'll take skill over athleticism. Drummond also had some character questions in the draft, so I'm sure when you add that, it was a non-starter to management, as it should've been given the other holes on this team at the time. Ross was still the best wing available at their pick, and there were not other PGs behind Lillard available. I suppose you could argue they should've drafted a PF, but with Bargs, Amir and Ed, that would be very difficult to do.*(and oh wait, they did, Acy)

                        Second bold: Raptors fans also can have "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. Everyone is always the right fit until things fall apart. Every PG we brought in against Jose was "more talented' until they couldn't win the starting job because they obviously weren't. People getting overexcited by acquisitions like Fred Jones and Juan Dixon.....Seriously...Ross is a young high potential player on a rookie scale contract. It is a gigantic gamble to trade him away unless you are getting an all-star player (not a borderline one, a genuine one).

                        Finally: Who says it would take 7 years? It's only been a few months fer chrissake...even perennial all-stars don't always show it in their rookie year. Have some patience. He has boatloads of athleticisim and more skill than Demar had as a rookie, so I'd give him some time. Unless we're getting an all-star who still produces, it is really risky and absurd, IMO, to trade Ross.
                        FYI - I wasn't REALLY serious when i said 7 years...

                        Also FYI - I meant pre-draft we were ALL hoping Lillard or Barnes would fall to us.

                        We could've had BOTH JV & Drummond (they werent even in the same draft so why did we need to pick between the two??)

                        Hindsight...... losing ED would've had a lesser impact on the team. We wouldnt need to draft Acy (who rarely plays and is undersized for the PF/C position)

                        The point is.......who here wanted T Ross BEFORE we picked him???? (heard it was a reach).......Does anyone else here think a top 8 pick should be getting DNPs for a team 15 games below .500??

                        I just think this organization has issues from top to bottom. I would LOVE to see Ross and JV play BIG minutes from here on out. I really want to see what they can do. I would LOVE to see AB & AA stay on the bench from here on out. However, I guess I just need to see more from Ross before I personally include him in the untouchables.

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                        • #27
                          Wow a tenforthewin thread that went at least two pages.. pretty incredible!

                          As for trading Ross.. it's too early. The Raptors need some kind of hope especially since their flexibility has been flushed away. You can't give up a rookie scaled contract that has upside for a veteran unless that veteran is a sure thing.. and now a days most teams are not going to give up their sure thing unless that player wants to be moved.

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                          • #28
                            I think a realistic comparison for T Ross is Allan Houston. But i'd say he has more potential than that because of his almost elite level(if not elite) athleticism.

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                            • #29
                              special1 wrote: View Post
                              FYI - I wasn't REALLY serious when i said 7 years...

                              Also FYI - I meant pre-draft we were ALL hoping Lillard or Barnes would fall to us.

                              We could've had BOTH JV & Drummond (they werent even in the same draft so why did we need to pick between the two??)

                              Hindsight...... losing ED would've had a lesser impact on the team. We wouldnt need to draft Acy (who rarely plays and is undersized for the PF/C position)

                              The point is.......who here wanted T Ross BEFORE we picked him???? (heard it was a reach).......Does anyone else here think a top 8 pick should be getting DNPs for a team 15 games below .500??

                              I just think this organization has issues from top to bottom. I would LOVE to see Ross and JV play BIG minutes from here on out. I really want to see what they can do. I would LOVE to see AB & AA stay on the bench from here on out. However, I guess I just need to see more from Ross before I personally include him in the untouchables.
                              Well, FYI I wanted Ross very badly, I just thought they would trade down and be able to get him a few picks lower. He also may have not been available if they tried, so that's fine. I figured from our draft position there was a 0% chance of anyone sliding to us. I think Portland had a public promise to take Lillard if he was available. GSW also only had a hole at SF going into the season. I honestly thought the pick would end up getting traded, but I'm glad it wasn't since it probably would've been for Lowry and we got him anyway.

                              I don't think Drummond and JV could coexist since neither makes a great PF. They should've only picked him if they knew they would want to trade him (or JV, but I'd rather keep JV), and they knew he would be this good. He's very raw in skill level and had character questions coming out. I'm sure if JV wasn't on the roster, they would've rolled the dice, but given the fact that going into the offseason the wing position was brutally weak, and Ross has shooting talent, it seemed like a great fit.

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                              • #30
                                I think we need to take a page out of Indiana's book with Ross. Look and Paul George and look what he is now. Will that happen with Ross who knows but there's nothing wrong with letting him develop and not giving him minutes. He can develop from the bench until he PROVES that he deserves to start. With that being said... the dude needs some minutes... we at least needs to see what he's got and also show him the things to work on... my biggest pet peeve is he leaves his feet on shooters way too often and thats something small and stupid he needs to stop and im sure drives casey mental.

                                Just to be clear he needs minutes.. but if he wants extended minutes he needs to earn them... (less so now that we're outta hunt basically.) But he can develop into a star if he puts in the work. If the dude inherits demars work ethic he will be an all-star.

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