enlightenment wrote:
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Why do we want to trade Jose again?
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Honestly is this surprising? everyone in the league and fans themselves know Calderon is a good point guard no doubt about it, its just anytime someone comes in to replace him he plays much much better I think being a starter for Raps so long it hurts his ego to come off the bench and hinders his play.
Granted though a healthy Lowry is the real deal and woud much rather start him over Calderon and thats not an insult to him just a recognition of what Lowry as a player is.
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One of the main problems here is that people are simply advocating for Lowry over Calderon based on age. Is it that outlandish to think that Calderon will be playing as long as a reckless Kyle Lowry? I mean Jose's only 4 and a half years older than Lowry and his playing style is much more suited to lasting deep into his 30's. I'm not saying that Jose is a Hall of Famer but Jose could very well last as long as Steve Nash whereas I see Lowry out of the NBA at the age of 34 or 35. The point is, once Lowry starts slowing down, he's done whereas Jose will be playing this way for another 5-6 years, more than enough time to find a good point guard in the draft.
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Jesus H Mr. Christie!
What kool-aid are people drinking, I want in!
This is what makes Toronto fans so crazy, one minute we love our team the next we hate. Same with the players. What nonsense.
Let me clear things up. Lowry is a solid solid PG, and definately worth putting in as our starter. If you want to be stat geeks, check out Hollingers PER, explains a lot.
If I could trade Calderon, I would. Especially if a high value player could be in got in return, if not then keep him.
I'm glad he had a great game, I'm glad we won, but let's not forget that we still suck...sorry to be the hope dasher. What's worse is whether or not this turns into another classic 30-52, 34-48, 29-53, season. In which case we'll have no pick...awesome.
Calderon is not a starter, if he was we could have traded him earlier for something....it never happened.
Can we get back to normal, let's continue to dislike this season (despite the exciting win) until they at least get to .500, and stop thinking that Calderon is the answer and that Lowry was a misstep.
Thanksi8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.
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pillowmint wrote: View PostJesus H Mr. Christie!
What kool-aid are people drinking, I want in!
This is what makes Toronto fans so crazy, one minute we love our team the next we hate. Same with the players. What nonsense.
Let me clear things up. Lowry is a solid solid PG, and definately worth putting in as our starter. If you want to be stat geeks, check out Hollingers PER, explains a lot.
If I could trade Calderon, I would. Especially if a high value player could be in got in return, if not then keep him.
I'm glad he had a great game, I'm glad we won, but let's not forget that we still suck...sorry to be the hope dasher. What's worse is whether or not this turns into another classic 30-52, 34-48, 29-53, season. In which case we'll have no pick...awesome.
Calderon is not a starter, if he was we could have traded him earlier for something....it never happened.
Can we get back to normal, let's continue to dislike this season (despite the exciting win) until they at least get to .500, and stop thinking that Calderon is the answer and that Lowry was a misstep.
Thanks
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pillowmint wrote: View PostJesus H Mr. Christie!
What kool-aid are people drinking, I want in!
This is what makes Toronto fans so crazy, one minute we love our team the next we hate. Same with the players. What nonsense.
Let me clear things up. Lowry is a solid solid PG, and definately worth putting in as our starter. If you want to be stat geeks, check out Hollingers PER, explains a lot.
If I could trade Calderon, I would. Especially if a high value player could be in got in return, if not then keep him.
I'm glad he had a great game, I'm glad we won, but let's not forget that we still suck...sorry to be the hope dasher. What's worse is whether or not this turns into another classic 30-52, 34-48, 29-53, season. In which case we'll have no pick...awesome.
Calderon is not a starter, if he was we could have traded him earlier for something....it never happened.
Can we get back to normal, let's continue to dislike this season (despite the exciting win) until they at least get to .500, and stop thinking that Calderon is the answer and that Lowry was a misstep.
Thanks
Especially if people really do think that Lowry is the problem (given when you compare both player's current positions in PER (Lowry at 6th vs Calderon at 24) for PGs. Or taking all players into account (33 for Lowry vs 97 for Calderon)..for what its worth, the only other Raptor in the top 50 is Ed Davis at 27.
In terms of whats wrong with the Raptors...the problem ISN'T at PG."My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
"If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy
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I'm sticking with Jose. Your true, traditional pass-first point guard. Not many teams left in the league that has one... Rondo, Paul, Nash and Kidd are only ones I can name.Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.
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Craiger wrote: View Post....In about 20 - 25 games Jose will qualify for some all-time rankings (15 000 min played) where he'll rank 7th in all time assist%. The names ahead of him - John Stockton, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson, Brevin Knight. The names behind him - Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Porter, Isaih Thomas. Of those names listed none have a better assist:to ratio than Jose, with Chris Paul being the closest behind him...You can call Jose 'dribbles' all you like, but the guy is one of the best play makers in the history of the game. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his weaknesses but this guy is a legit NBA starter thats gone undervalued by fans and this organization for the last 4 years.
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I don't think anyone doubts what Jose can do on offense. He's a good distributor, can hit open shots, protects the ball and manages the game well, but what's always been his achiles heel is his defense. If he could play D then he would be very comparable to J. Kidd, imo, and there would be no doubts as to whether he is a worthy starter or not.
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Craiger wrote: View PostCalderon is clearly more than a 'back up'. The guy proves his mettle time and again. Against Ford, Jack and now Lowry. He shows it every time the trade talks come up.
In about 20 - 25 games Jose will qualify for some all-time rankings (15 000 min played) where he'll rank 7th in all time assist%. The names ahead of him - John Stockton, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson, Brevin Knight. The names behind him - Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Porter, Isaih Thomas. Of those names listed none have a better assist:to ratio than Jose, with Chris Paul being the closest behind him.
You can call Jose 'dribbles' all you like, but the guy is one of the best play makers in the history of the game. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his weaknesses but this guy is a legit NBA starter thats gone undervalued by fans and this organization for the last 4 years.
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Everyone hating on joses lack of a winning record is forgetting to look at other constants. Being the players around him, hes played with Finesse big men his entire tenure as a raptor and now that he has some good pick and roll partners and good backcourt defense he is obviously going to play some of the best basketball of his career. Jose is not the problem. Bargnani and Bosh were.
I will say that trading Jose is probably the best action going forward buy only if there is significant value coming back. Jose may not be the solution for this team , but frankly if Jose isnt, then neither is Lowry.
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