Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Chisholm sums up reality of any Rudy Gay deal

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure why you keep saying this; Rudy Gay has the highest Usage Rate on the Memphis Grizzlies according to Hoopsdata:

    Rudy Gay - 25.84%

    Zach Randolph - 22.74%
    Mike Conley - 20.13%
    Marc Gasol - 18.03%

    He is absolutely their first option. Even their FGA Per Game reflects this:

    Rudy Gay - 16.6 FGA per game

    Zach Randolph - 13.9 FGA per game
    Mike Conley - 11.5 FGA per game
    Marc Gasol - 10.6 FGA per game
    Jared Cunningham and Chris Kaman have a higher usage rate than Dirk Nowitzski, yet there's no denying who Dallas' 1st option is.

    Metta World Peace averages more FGA than Gasol, Howard and Nash. Is he their 2nd option?

    Comment


    • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
      I think what Hollinger forgot to mention in his analysis is that Gay has to play alongside 2 big men who clog the paint most of the time. Add a PG in Conley who makes a living off the dribble penetration and the pick and pop and Allen who has zero perimeter shooting. Gay's only way to make points is to take perimeter shots, and the chances of making those are obviously less than when operating closer to the basket.

      With the Raptors, Gay will have more shots available to him, in a wider range. From what i've seen, he handles the ball real well, almost 3asts per game is pretty good for a forward. Even if he has the ball, you know he will look to pass to the open man and not always throw up a shot.

      Defensively, i think he's pretty good. 99 DRting is up there. Lebron is 103.
      Nilanka wrote: View Post
      +1

      We can't simply look at his stats in a vacuum and say, "he's not much better than what we've got". We have to look at his skill set, and the circumstances surrounding his career to see Gay's value in Toronto.

      Gay's game is so extremely well-rounded. He may not excel in any one category, but there are very few holes in his game. He can shoot, he can pass, he can drive, he can defend, he can rebound, etc. A player of his talent-level doesn't come by often.
      Nilanka wrote: View Post
      +1 again. You're on a roll today, Glove

      The only thing I might disagree with is the overlapping part. Neither DeRozan or Gay are legitimate 3-point threats. In my ideal wing rotation, one of my starters is a bomber. From this perspective, I think Ross is a better compliment to Gay than DeRozan.
      TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
      We are in partial agreement, hehe

      In this situation, unfortunately, it seems like in order to get talent, you have to surrender talent. If BC can pull of a Kupchak and acquire Gay like how Kupchak acquired Gasol for scrubs, then by all means! Unfortunately, I dont think (i may be wrong, maybe Gay loves the snow) Toronto is a top-of-the-list destination for Gay like LA was for Gasol, meaning the Lakers had leverage that time and Toronto, at current, does not. So if it means giving up Demar to get Gay, i would have to say yes, only because there is still a fallback with Ross taking over Demar's spot. Ross is already showing that he can play the way Demar is playing, plus a 3 point stroke and much more hustle and effort. If the Raps did not have Ross, i would think twice about giving up Demar for Gay because of the financial implications, but because they have Ross, i wouldnt think twice.
      TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
      hahahaha RR poster of the day!!

      I guess you'll +1 my post before this one then coz i just said i'd take Ross over Demar! hahaha

      I just mentioned the Demar-Gay tandem because if the Raps do pull-off the Claderon+Davis+pick for Gay trade then most likely DD and Gay will be playing heavy minutes together. But pure one on one comparison, both of them are not threats, but id rather leave Demar on the 3pt line than Gay.
      You guys are on a roll today.

      I am in agreement with you both.

      He is overpaid, no doubt, but we are not talking about DeSanga Diop here.

      Comment


      • special1 wrote: View Post
        I would rather Marc Gasol than Rudy Gay...... Now there's an example of someone who makes their team better. At least Marc's an all-star. I don't think at 17 million - 19 million Rudy is worth it. UNLESS we get rid of some unnecessary pieces like AB, LK, etc. Obviously this would be a dream come true, but i dont want to give up our core for Rudy. I would though for Marc Gasol.
        Dude im right there with you. But what i think you and golden are a bit unclear with is that i am not advocating for acquiring Rudy Gay because i want the Raptors to target Rudy Gay, but right now, with what we are getting from the media, Rudy Gay is by far the most attainable prospect there is for the Raptors. If i had a choice, i wouldnt get Gay, id get Gasol, Lebron, Kobe, Durant. Answer me this, is there any other top level talent, that is better than any Raptor player, that is currently in the market, that their home team is willing to trade, other than Gay??

        I guess the only other argument is to not acquire anybody, wait for calderon's contract to expire, keep Bargnani etc etc. But if a good deal comes to nab Gay, then why not, right? The only other prospect is Josh Smith, next year, and i dont see the Raps getting him unless they overpay.

        Comment


        • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
          I disagree. I think BC should be aggressive in getting this trade done, but not at the expense of giving too much in return. Im not sure if giving up too much is what you meant by "aggressive", if it is, then i agree with you. I think BC should always be aggressive in pursuing trades that can benefit the team.

          Im not sure where people are getting "mediocre" when describing Gay's defense. Memphis was the 8th best defensive team 2 years ago, 5th best last year and #1 this year. Gay plays 37 mins a game, surely he's a big contributor to Memphis' defense since he plays heavy minutes. And his individual DRating is 105, 102 and 99 respectively. compared to lebron who was 102,97 and 103, who plays the same position and has been considered numerous times for DPOY.

          This is actually my selling point with Gay, the ability to handle the ball in the crucial seconds of the game, something that the Raptors have been lacking for quite sometime, and which i think is a skill highly underrated and undervalued. You need a guy who can do this.
          Awful defense. Absolutely pitiful.

          Keep Lowry, Ross, JV and I am fine with giving up whoever.

          I think a 3 man rotation of Fields, Gay, and Ross would be stellar and having AA as a 4th would be nice insurance.

          Comment


          • Nilanka wrote: View Post
            No, it's you who doesn't get it. How many years does Lowry have left on his deal? Should we not have traded for him because we're scared he's anti-Canada?

            Maybe we should just build a team full of Canadians (and Matt Bonner) because they "want to be here", lol.

            Of course I can't guarantee anything. Nobody can. Can you guarantee we'll ever be a playoff team with DeRozan leading the way? No, you can't.

            This is a business. Nobody has any loyalty to the Raptors.
            Right...... i'm pretty sure if we give Lowry the keys and a nice contract Lowry (whom is very close with Alvin Williams) MAY choose to stay. This is a risk (we knew that coming in). But who did we give up for Lowry?? Your boy Gary Forbes and a draft pick..... Who do you want to give up for Rudy??? Be honest - i wont check the thread but i recall Jose, DD, ED + 2nd rounder if we had to...... thats too much for not even an all-star. YES - YOU DONT GET IT AT ALL!!

            Comment


            • golden wrote: View Post
              I think you answered your own post right there. Gay is not worth the money. We all agree on that. And since when did overpaying-for-mediocre-talent become the M.O. of every GM in the league? lol.
              Mediocre?

              Interesting.

              I can see why consensus will never be reached on this topic.

              Comment


              • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                Dude im right there with you. But what i think you and golden are a bit unclear with is that i am not advocating for acquiring Rudy Gay because i want the Raptors to target Rudy Gay, but right now, with what we are getting from the media, Rudy Gay is by far the most attainable prospect there is for the Raptors. If i had a choice, i wouldnt get Gay, id get Gasol, Lebron, Kobe, Durant. Answer me this, is there any other top level talent, that is better than any Raptor player, that is currently in the market, that their home team is willing to trade, other than Gay??

                I guess the only other argument is to not acquire anybody, wait for calderon's contract to expire, keep Bargnani etc etc. But if a good deal comes to nab Gay, then why not, right? The only other prospect is Josh Smith, next year, and i dont see the Raps getting him unless they overpay.
                I would rather over pay for Josh Smith than to Overpay for Rudy Gay and give up half our talent (which we would likely need to do)!!

                Comment


                • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  Mediocre?

                  Interesting.

                  I can see why consensus will never be reached on this topic.
                  Mediocre - THIS YEAR......he's not getting younger!

                  Comment


                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    (Facepalm)

                    STATS 101, guys....

                    You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

                    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html
                    (Facepalm)

                    So Gay who has an individual defensive rating of 99 (which is like awesome) is a horrible defender because the team is 98.8 (which is like 2nd best in the league) when he is off the floor.

                    Gotcha.

                    That mediocre bitch.

                    Comment


                    • special1 wrote: View Post
                      Right...... i'm pretty sure if we give Lowry the keys and a nice contract Lowry (whom is very close with Alvin Williams) MAY choose to stay. This is a risk (we knew that coming in). But who did we give up for Lowry?? Your boy Gary Forbes and a draft pick..... Who do you want to give up for Rudy??? Be honest - i wont check the thread but i recall Jose, DD, ED + 2nd rounder if we had to...... thats too much for not even an all-star. YES - YOU DONT GET IT AT ALL!!
                      lol, you really are "special" (remedial class special).

                      Jose is gone in a few months. Losing him means nothing.

                      Davis is a redundant player because we already have Amir. Not a big deal.

                      DeMar might be asking too much (if combined with Jose/Davis/picks), but he's nowhere near an untouchable player. Not even close.

                      Comment


                      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        Except for Gay's shoulder injury, he has missed 10 games in his career. 10 games total. He has missed 1 game in the last 1.5 seasons.

                        JO? C'mon. The only similarity is big contracts.... and JO's was actually $5M more per season.

                        LOL... yes I know there is really no comparison but as long as BC is our GM I have a fear that something bad will happen and the franchise will be screwed for another 4/5 years. I'm a Gay fan boy. I'd love if he was on this team.

                        Comment


                        • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          lol, you really are "special" (remedial class special).

                          Jose is gone in a few months. Losing him means nothing.

                          Davis is a redundant player because we already have Amir. Not a big deal.

                          DeMar might be asking too much (if combined with Jose/Davis/picks), but he's nowhere near an untouchable player. Not even close.
                          LOL - good one. Well i'm glad you admitted that including Demar would be asking too much (or might be asking too much)......Everyone knows you hate on Demar, but it was starting to get ridiculous!!

                          You only see talent when its on the other team. Maybe your just impatient or scorned from Bargnani..... regardless i was fine with giving up JOSE (your right he may be gone in a few months) and actually wouldnt it make sense for us to give up Amir instead of ED?? Amir's salary would match up better anyways. The most i give up for Mr. Gay + some BIG back is Amir + JOse + AA + 2nd Rounder. Take it or Leave it Memphis - IF not, pay the luxury tax for all i care.

                          Comment


                          • BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
                            Memphis also knows Rudy best medically, they may be trying to sell high. Bird did that with JO'Neal to us.


                            Again, I think not a single playoff team will touch that contract or take the chance on a player like Gay (20 missed games each year from a key contributor is not something you can plan for). Not for 16 Million, the package that Memphis is requesting feels steep to me, I don't want to bail them out. They should just keep Gay if he is so good.

                            (also aren't they the ones instigating this trade, feels like someone wants to jump ship and clean their hands)

                            EDIT: If he misses 20 games this year, next year, and plays just like he has toady. This would be a disaster. The up side is that some of you feel that he will be BETTER on our team, and I think that is wishful thinking, he should be better on Memphis who has the better cast, and record to prove it.
                            Logically yes, no playoff team will take on Gay's contract, one, because if your team is a legit playoff team then what would be the reason behind messing up a team doing well? two, if you are a playoff team, chances are, you already have a player of Gay's caliber. But if they thought that Gay is a fit and taking on his salary would be a high risk high reward outcome, then i wouldnt doubt they would do it. When the lakers took on a supposed aging Gasol with a 19mil a year contract, what happened?

                            Gay missed close to half the season in 2010-11, but came back and missed only one game last year, and missed one game so far this year. what makes you think he's going to miss 20 games every year?

                            Youre riding on speculation. One can easily say that if the Raptors acquire LBJ, who knows he can miss 20 games every year. You cant speculate to justify your argument.

                            Comment


                            • planetmars wrote: View Post
                              LOL... yes I know there is really no comparison but as long as BC is our GM I have a fear that something bad will happen and the franchise will be screwed for another 4/5 years. I'm a Gay fan boy. I'd love if he was on this team.
                              My bad. Playing catch up on the day.

                              Normally I would "pfft" a comment like the bold but, honestly and sadly, I feel the same.

                              But we should be aware those thoughts are not at all rational - lol.

                              Comment


                              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                (Facepalm)

                                So Gay who has an individual defensive rating of 99 (which is like awesome) is a horrible defender because the team is 98.8 (which is like 2nd best in the league) when he is off the floor.

                                Gotcha.

                                That mediocre bitch.
                                hahahhaa FACEPALM!

                                For a minute there, i was actually doing the facepalm and thinking to myself, did i just post a dumb comment?? hahaha.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X