Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Playoffs Next Year! Fool's Gold?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    That's even worse.

    I'd like to be positive about it and just start hoping they loose every game but I can't see myself doing that.

    This could be a long winter...
    As a long-time Raptors fan, you kind of get used to it. But there is also hope for the future!! Whether that future is the 2014 draft or the 2016 draft or beyond, we always have our hope!!!
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

    Comment


    • #32
      iblastoff wrote: View Post
      i'm coming around on the tanking argument. as much as I'd like to see the raptors in 2014 playoffs (and getting knocked out in the first round), in the long run it just seems like tanking has the better chance of improving the team overall, even if takes several more years of just horrible basketball. ugh.
      Several more years? This whole tanking concept has just about been beaten to death, but how would you feel if the following scenario took place:

      - Masai blows up the whole team except JV. To get a high chance at a high lottery pick, virtually every decent asset currently on the team would have to be moved for scraps. If "good prospects" are returned, as many speak of, then if they really are good prospects, they may very perform as well, or close to the young players we gave away, shoving the "tank" down the drain.
      - So let's say the team is bad enough to have the 3rd worst record in the league, just like 2010-11. We not only lose the lottery, but drop to the 5th pick, which many tank proponents say is good enough for next year.
      - So now we're picking the 5th best prospect, who just doesn't pan out (happens often) or worse, blows his knee out, a la Oden.
      - We're left with JV, scraps, and a disabled draft pick and looking at more than "several" more bad years.

      Comment


      • #33
        p00ka wrote: View Post
        Several more years? This whole tanking concept has just about been beaten to death, but how would you feel if the following scenario took place:

        - Masai blows up the whole team except JV. To get a high chance at a high lottery pick, virtually every decent asset currently on the team would have to be moved for scraps. If "good prospects" are returned, as many speak of, then if they really are good prospects, they may very perform as well, or close to the young players we gave away, shoving the "tank" down the drain.
        - So let's say the team is bad enough to have the 3rd worst record in the league, just like 2010-11. We not only lose the lottery, but drop to the 5th pick, which many tank proponents say is good enough for next year.
        - So now we're picking the 5th best prospect, who just doesn't pan out (happens often) or worse, blows his knee out, a la Oden.
        - We're left with JV, scraps, and a disabled draft pick and looking at more than "several" more bad years.
        Or we could have kept BC and have had several more bad years regardless. Nothing is guaranteed, either way. I could make the same argument about tinkering with our current roster and we would end up in the same place; bad years.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

        Comment


        • #34
          p00ka wrote: View Post
          Several more years? This whole tanking concept has just about been beaten to death, but how would you feel if the following scenario took place:

          - Masai blows up the whole team except JV. To get a high chance at a high lottery pick, virtually every decent asset currently on the team would have to be moved for scraps. If "good prospects" are returned, as many speak of, then if they really are good prospects, they may very perform as well, or close to the young players we gave away, shoving the "tank" down the drain.
          - So let's say the team is bad enough to have the 3rd worst record in the league, just like 2010-11. We not only lose the lottery, but drop to the 5th pick, which many tank proponents say is good enough for next year.
          - So now we're picking the 5th best prospect, who just doesn't pan out (happens often) or worse, blows his knee out, a la Oden.
          - We're left with JV, scraps, and a disabled draft pick and looking at more than "several" more bad years.
          If this plan even gives us a chance at Wiggins, Randle, Parker, or Smart, I say it's worth the risk.

          Comment


          • #35
            p00ka wrote: View Post
            Several more years? This whole tanking concept has just about been beaten to death, but how would you feel if the following scenario took place:

            - Masai blows up the whole team except JV. To get a high chance at a high lottery pick, virtually every decent asset currently on the team would have to be moved for scraps. If "good prospects" are returned, as many speak of, then if they really are good prospects, they may very perform as well, or close to the young players we gave away, shoving the "tank" down the drain.
            - So let's say the team is bad enough to have the 3rd worst record in the league, just like 2010-11. We not only lose the lottery, but drop to the 5th pick, which many tank proponents say is good enough for next year.
            - So now we're picking the 5th best prospect, who just doesn't pan out (happens often) or worse, blows his knee out, a la Oden.
            - We're left with JV, scraps, and a disabled draft pick and looking at more than "several" more bad years.
            If you remember correctly, tanking is what got us JV.
            "Stay steamy"

            - Kobe

            Comment


            • #36
              hotfuzz wrote: View Post
              If you remember correctly, tanking is what got us JV.
              If you remember correctly, it was Cleveland picking Thomspon that landed us JV. Otherwise we would've had Biyombo, or I think the other option was a trade down for Knight? (could be wrong on whether it was for Knight as a target, but I remember a somewhat recent story on that trading down option)

              Then we wouldn't need to have the "tank" debate, because we'd be worse, and maybe with no good prospects.

              Comment


              • #37
                white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                If you remember correctly, it was Cleveland picking Thomspon that landed us JV. Otherwise we would've had Biyombo, or I think the other option was a trade down for Knight? (could be wrong on whether it was for Knight as a target, but I remember a somewhat recent story on that trading down option)

                Then we wouldn't need to have the "tank" debate, because we'd be worse, and maybe with no good prospects.
                Even the, we wouldn't have been in a position to pick JV had we not been as bad as we were.
                "Stay steamy"

                - Kobe

                Comment


                • #38
                  The Raptors are going for a miracle run. There is absolutely no point in tanking, way too many teams are doing it. Raptors should just trying to get the highest seed they possibly can in the playoffs and go for a franchise altering playoff run, enough with the taking BS. Leaving our fate in the hands of luck is a terrible idea.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                    The Raptors are going for a miracle run. There is absolutely no point in tanking, way too many teams are doing it. Raptors should just trying to get the highest seed they possibly can in the playoffs and go for a franchise altering playoff run, enough with the taking BS. Leaving our fate in the hands of luck is a terrible idea.
                    One can argue that leaving our fate in the hands of non-elite players is also a terrible idea.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      One can argue that leaving our fate in the hands of non-elite players is also a terrible idea.
                      Who says Gay or JV can't become elite? Even so look at Golden State. They don't have any Elite players (i don't consider Steph Curry elite i'm sorry).

                      Right now there is just too much uncertainty with this team. The roster is completely different from how we started off last season and the "main guy" has also changed from Lowry/DeRozan to Rudy Gay. We still don't know how Lowry will play, How much DeRozan has improved, How much Gay as improved, How much amir has improved, how much JV has improved, etc...
                      On top of that, the front office has been shaken up big time and so has the coaching staff. Who's to say the Raptors have a Franchise year and have 1 maybe even 2 or 3 all stars?

                      My point is that, it is too early to tell how good or bad this team will be. IMO it is not a good idea to blow it up for the billionth time, we should just ride with it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        p00ka wrote: View Post
                        Several more years? This whole tanking concept has just about been beaten to death, but how would you feel if the following scenario took place:

                        - Masai blows up the whole team except JV. To get a high chance at a high lottery pick, virtually every decent asset currently on the team would have to be moved for scraps. If "good prospects" are returned, as many speak of, then if they really are good prospects, they may very perform as well, or close to the young players we gave away, shoving the "tank" down the drain.
                        - So let's say the team is bad enough to have the 3rd worst record in the league, just like 2010-11. We not only lose the lottery, but drop to the 5th pick, which many tank proponents say is good enough for next year.
                        - So now we're picking the 5th best prospect, who just doesn't pan out (happens often) or worse, blows his knee out, a la Oden.
                        - We're left with JV, scraps, and a disabled draft pick and looking at more than "several" more bad years.
                        so your argument is what if the pick ends up a bust? well yes, thats what the draft can be like.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                          Who says Gay or JV can't become elite? Even so look at Golden State. They don't have any Elite players (i don't consider Steph Curry elite i'm sorry).

                          Right now there is just too much uncertainty with this team. The roster is completely different from how we started off last season and the "main guy" has also changed from Lowry/DeRozan to Rudy Gay. We still don't know how Lowry will play, How much DeRozan has improved, How much Gay as improved, How much amir has improved, how much JV has improved, etc...
                          On top of that, the front office has been shaken up big time and so has the coaching staff. Who's to say the Raptors have a Franchise year and have 1 maybe even 2 or 3 all stars?

                          My point is that, it is too early to tell how good or bad this team will be. IMO it is not a good idea to blow it up for the billionth time, we should just ride with it.
                          whos to say if andrea bargnani had 1 more season in toronto he would have finally broken out and scored 30 a night? same useless ranting.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            iblastoff wrote: View Post
                            whos to say if andrea bargnani had 1 more season in toronto he would have finally broken out and scored 30 a night? same useless ranting.
                            As useless as ranting about how tanking (despite the fact that about 1/4 of the league will be tanking next season) is a sure-fire way to land the next franchise talent, like LBJ or KD??

                            I have stated that I understand the allure and potential benefits of tanking, so I just expect the pro-tankers to openly admit the extreme amount of risk and luck involved with an all-out tanking strategy. The way some pro-tankers talk on RR (not necessarily you specifically), all Toronto needs to do is decide to tank and, voila, Wiggins will be automatically be a Raptor and is absolutely guaranteed to fulfill the once-in-a-generation, franchise-altering hype that surrounds him. I'm sorry, but it's not that simple.

                            CONS TO TANKING
                            - many teams doing it, plus some teams will just suck naturally
                            - even if Toronto was the only team tanking, having a bottom-3 record is not a sure thing
                            - even if Toronto finishes with a bottom-3 record, getting a top-3 pick is not a sure thing (lottery luck)
                            - even if Toronto wins the lottery, there's no guarantee that the draft pick will fulfill potential
                            - lots of talent/potential will be dumped in favor of draft picks, with no guarantee that drafted players will ever be better than players traded away
                            - another season of [deliberate] losing will turn off more fans
                            - another season of [deliberate] losing will turn off some agents/free agents (and Toronto is already not a highly desirable landing spot)
                            - another season of [deliberate] losing, followed by anything short of the draft pick(s) becoming a superstar/all-star caliber player, will be met with lots of blowback from fans/media/players/agents/free agents
                            - with all the teams tanking this upcoming season, quite a few of them are going to come away from the 2014 draft sorely disappointed, with relatively nothing of significance to show for their year of tanking
                            - failed tanking results in the team having far fewer tradeable assets at their disposal for rebuilding (having traded them all away for expiring contracts and draft picks), which is only magnified for teams that aren't top free agent destinations (ie: Toronto)

                            I just can't see TL/MU adopting tanking as their strategy, given all of the above, when you consider that they were brought in to turnaround the culture/indentity/perception of a perpetually losing franchise. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me, because tanking is far from a guaranteed success, especially this upcoming season. I think it makes more sense for MU to be an opportunistic vulture, to grab young/talented players that other teams are casting off as they go all-in with tanking.
                            Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Jul 3, 2013, 05:32 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The difference between Rudy potentially having a career year next year and Bargnani doing it is Rudy doesn't have the entire arena of Raptor fans booing him every time he takes the court.
                              You come at the King, you best not miss.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I'm personally not in favour of tanking next season, but to add fuel to the fire for tankers let's assume the Raptors tanked and missed out on a stud (due to injury; got a bad pick; or just screwed up the draft).... well the Grizzlies tanked for Lebron, and because of their stupid protection their pick went to Detroit.

                                Memphis had a 28-46 record in 2002-2003.
                                Memphis had a 50-32 record in 2003-2004.

                                There was not much significant roster movement, but turned things around based on organic growth alone.

                                So even if the Raptors do tank, and miss out on a stud, they could still theoretically rebound and become a playoff team the next season.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X