Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How does the Raptors bench compare to the Eastern Conference?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Why not post the whole article in another thread?
    TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

    Comment


    • #17
      theycallmeZZ wrote: View Post
      Why not post the whole article in another thread?
      Because one of the rules of the forum states:

      DO NOT post more than a couple paragraphs of copyrighted material without obtaining specific permission from the current copyright owner to post the material....
      I don't know if this article is copyrighted or not, but I'll err on the side of caution.

      Also, I think the moderators would appreciate not having a new thread every time a new article is written

      Comment


      • #18
        :/


        *ahem*

        Carry on, then.
        TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

        Comment


        • #19
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          ...I don't know if this article is copyrighted or not, but I'll err on the side of caution...
          Good err.

          Anything that is "published" is now copyrighted, unless it explicitly states that it isn't. Published applies to content in text, images, film, audio etc. either on paper, carved into stone or placed online.

          Most material is allowed to be copied for "fair use" which would permit a couple of paragraphs (to show style, type of content) for review purposes or for use when quoting sources to prove a point in a separate work. Examples of the latter are film clips on film review shows or sites, quotes from books by book reviewers or quotes in scholarly works to provide proofs of an argument.

          I am not a copyright lawyer, nor do I play one in a TV show.

          Comment


          • #20
            Great post Matt -- my first thought when we picked up Lowry wasn't what a benefit it would be to our starting lineup (which it will be) but how awesome it would be for our bench.

            We pick up Lowry, our starting lineup gets a talent boost at point (mostly on the defensive end), our bench gets a BIG talent boost at point, and both our starting and bench lineups get boosts at other positions tangentially: I think Derozan will actually be more successful with a point guard who can attack and force the wings to collapse a bit; meanwhile I think last year proved that Amir was more successful with Calderon than he was with Bayless (who shares some similarities with Lowry).

            Point is, I'm excited about our bench not just because of the individual talent of the players, but because of the high potential for synergy.

            (I should add that I think this applies to Jonas too. I actually think Casey will have him come off the bench, and that the reason will be as much that he isn't ready to go up against starters (foul trouble!) as that he'll benefit much more from Calderon running point over Lowry. I think/hope Casey will start Gray beside Bargs for spacing and rebounding, and run Val and Amir on the second unit, hittin pick and rolls for days with Calderon.)

            Comment


            • #21
              themasao wrote: View Post
              ...I think/hope Casey will start Gray beside Bargs for spacing and rebounding, and run Val and Amir on the second unit, hittin pick and rolls for days with Calderon.)
              Amen to that brother.

              Comment


              • #22
                Great Post! Thank you for your hard work.
                I agree with you with a couple minor differences in opinion not worth hashing out. Your post does raise a slightly tangential issue though. If our starters get 28-36 minutes each while healthy (minus JV of course). We're talking about 12-20 minutes for the second unit players. That worries me a bit, especially with regards to 3 players.

                1) Calderon - 10.5 M to play minimal minutes. The more he plays, the less Lowry plays, and I don't want to see another Jack/Calderon or Ford/Calderon dilemma. I can't see either playing SG, and if they do, that's even less minutes for ...

                2) Ross - I understand he's a rookie and doesn't "deserve" minutes especially when the Raps want to win games. That said, ~15 min for a lottery pick is not the best development strategy. Especially when BC has to decide on DD's future with the franchise; thus, needing a good evaluation of Ross and DD.

                3) Ed Davis - How is he going to get minutes? (barring injuries) Again, we're trying to win games, so he's not going to get consistent C minutes especially after struggling to guard PFs last year. The less he plays, the less he develops and the less his trade value.

                We're also not talking about AJ getting 6M to squeeze in minutes with JV/Gray.
                Or LK getting 4.6 M to squeeze in minutes between a congested SF/PF (if DD plays shares SF minutes)

                Depth is great because all teams have injuries and players need rest but it can also backfire for some player's value and development.

                Comment


                • #23
                  We have a good bench but that means very little because they are the bench. You look at bench as something important when you're going deep into the playoffs and need a player to be able to step up in a pinch, or that one guy that has a career game that pushes you forward to the next series. What this thread proves is that in that situation, we have a good chance of winning.

                  Unfortunately for us, teams with good players have starters that usually play more than 70% of the minutes in a game. Which means that 70% of the time we are at a severe disadvantage.
                  your pal,
                  ebrian

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    ebrian wrote: View Post
                    ...Unfortunately for us, teams with good players have starters that usually play more than 70% of the minutes in a game. Which means that 70% of the time we are at a severe disadvantage.
                    Not completely disagreeing, but if the Raps can improve on last years D, then they can go a long way to containing the other teams good players, and tiring them out more. That makes the play of the bench more important. Last year we saw the Raps hanging in, right down to the last few minutes of most contests. If the Raps bench can outscore the opposing teams bench, the D of the starting five, and improved scoring from them, may be enough to steal more wins this season.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      ebrian wrote: View Post
                      We have a good bench but that means very little because they are the bench. You look at bench as something important when you're going deep into the playoffs and need a player to be able to step up in a pinch, or that one guy that has a career game that pushes you forward to the next series. What this thread proves is that in that situation, we have a good chance of winning.

                      Unfortunately for us, teams with good players have starters that usually play more than 70% of the minutes in a game. Which means that 70% of the time we are at a severe disadvantage.
                      I actually find a bench to be much less important in the playoffs than in the regular season. Rotations tighten up significantly in the playoffs, players are more likely to play through injuries and starters (especially star players) minutes tend to increase.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Craiger wrote: View Post
                        I actually find a bench to be much less important in the playoffs than in the regular season. Rotations tighten up significantly in the playoffs, players are more likely to play through injuries and starters (especially star players) minutes tend to increase.
                        If you look at Matt52's analysis, you see the Raptors winning 11-1-2 on bench. This clarifies your point (which I agree with at most levels) in that the good teams only need 2-3 players off the bench. We may have a solid 6-12 guys compared to other teams going 6-12 deep, but no one really looks at that. The good teams only care about 6-7, and possibly 8 if there's some injury issues. For some teams that are so good, you really only care about #6. That is the guy who is going to be the difference maker.. the Jason Terry type that is just so good that no one gives a rats ass that our #8 guy Amir Johnson is better than your #8 guy Ian Mahinmi, because at that point you're already losing by 30 so it doesn't matter.

                        Let's compare the first two guys off the bench for our team (Amir Johnson and Jose Calderon) against all the other teams:

                        Atlanta: Zaza Pachulia, Lou Williams
                        Draw. I'd rather have Lou Williams coming off the bench than Jose to be honest, and Amir is slightly better than Zaza.
                        Boston: Jason Terry, Jeff Green
                        Boston wins this in a landslide. Both those guys would be starters on our team.
                        Brooklyn: Reggie Evans, Josh Childress
                        Brooklyn is actually quite terrible. I give this one to the Raptors.
                        Charlotte: Ben Gordon, Brendan Haywood
                        These guys have been good once. If Gordon can rekindle his Chicago days then they are better. Right now it's a tie.
                        Chicago*: Taj Gibson, Marquis Teague
                        Don't know enough about Teague. I pick Toronto.
                        Cleveland: Daniel Gibson, Kelenna Azubuike
                        Toronto again.
                        Detroit: Austin Daye, Jonas Jerebko
                        Toronto again.
                        Indiana: Tyler Hansbrough, DJ Augustin
                        I say tie. Augustin can run the offense but PG isn't asked to do much on that team. Hansbrough is underrated.
                        Miami: Ray Allen, Udonis Haslem
                        Not even close.. Miami.
                        Milwaukee: Ersan Ilyasova, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
                        Another two guys who would likely start for us. Milwaukee.
                        New York: Jason Kidd, Marcus Camby
                        I think Kidd will take over the starting job at some point. I pick the Knicks though I can see this being controversial.
                        Orlando: JJ Reddick, Al Harrington (Orlando)
                        It's close but I give it to Orlando. Harrington is much, much better than Amir.
                        Philadelphia: Thaddeus Young, Nick Young (Philly)
                        Young is a starter, I give it to Philly.
                        Washington: Jordan Crawford, ???
                        Terrible. Pick Toronto.

                        Looking 2-deep, we're 5-6-3. Not as impressive.
                        your pal,
                        ebrian

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Nice re-evaluation of the material e. I like Matt's original post, but I like your re-look.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I agree that the bench will be a strength and advantage for the Raptors this season. It reminds me a lot of the 2006-2007 season, when the Raptors suprisingly won the division, before losing to NJ in the playoffs.

                            That season I remember watching the games and just hoping that the starters (Bosh, Ford, Rasho, Parker, Garbo) could keep it close, so that the bench (Calderon, Bargnani, MoP, Graham, Humphries) could turn the tide and give the Raptors the lead by the midway point of the 2nd quarter. All I remember is a much younger/healthier Calderon getting by backup PGs and constantly slashing to the basket for easy layups or passes to the corner, either for an open 3 or to work the ball around to the top of the key for an open 3 (Bargnani, MoP), with Humphries crashing the offensive glass.

                            I really think that this year's 2nd unit can bring the same advantage to the 2012-2013 Raptors.

                            I assume that the starters will be Valanciunas, Bargnani, Fields, DeRozan and Lowry. I also expect Gray to get time with the starters, when Valanciunas gets into foul trouble or is overmatched.

                            That leaves the primary 2nd unit to be Amir, Davis, Kleiza, Ross and Calderon. I really think this lineup is well balanced and much better overall than most other 2nd units in the league. Calderon will make this unit better offensively than the sum of the parts, by bringing a calming influence and ball distribution. Amir and Davis can run the P&R and will be asked to clean the boards. Kleiza can either post-up against less physical SFs, or can play on the perimeter. Ross can play on the perimieter and will be asked to provide athleticism and penetration, as the unit's primary scorer. Calderon also adds an outside shot to his veteran repetoire, which will be enough to outclass most backup PGs in the league.

                            When the Raps go to a tighter rotation I expect Ross (wing), Calderon (guard) and Amir (big) to get the most playing time (ie: 8 man rotation).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Puffer wrote: View Post
                              Nice re-evaluation of the material e. I like Matt's original post, but I like your re-look.
                              I was hoping for more of that.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                JS: With Lowry and John Lucas III joining Jose Calderon on the roster, point guard appears to now be a position of strength for the Raptors. Can you describe just how advantageous that is for this team?

                                AR: We had this conversation a few months ago, there is a clear, discernible difference when you’re looking at NBA players between having to go against starters all the time and guys that play against reserves. This shows up very easily when you’re comparing two different players if one of them is a starter playing 35 minutes per game, another guy is a reserve playing 22 minutes a game, the reserve is going against a very different caliber of opponent than the starters.

                                That gets into this notion that if you can sustain a level of play into the reserves, you get an even bigger advantage. So when teams are playing us, they’re never going to get a ‘backup point guard’. You’re going to get 48 minutes of quality point guard play. So when they bring in their backups and maybe have a drop off in quality, we should be in a position to take advantage of that because we will always have a good point guard on the floor.

                                http://blog.raptors.com/q-a-with-alex-rucker-pt-2/
                                I think this relates to the general idea of the thread.

                                Hopefully the Raps can compete with most starting lineups (specifically on defense playing within Casey's system) and destroy their benches (on both ends).

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X