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  • #46
    Pele wrote: View Post
    I just reviewed Brooklyn's moves last summer, yeah...my bad...Brooklyn was built on trades.

    However, they did sign FA Alan Anderson....so I'm not completely out to lunch. Lol.

    I guess I was curious as to going in the direction of signing veteran FA's and winning now, rather than pinning our hopes to the draft and looking 5 years down the road.

    Either way, with our roster...I guess Masai has his work cut out for him.
    As the roster currently stands, going the free agency route likely won't even be an option for MU in the offseason.

    SIGNED FOR 2014-2015
    - DeRozan @ $9.5
    - Fields @ $6.25
    - Novak @ $3.45
    - Valanciunas @ $3.68
    - Ross @ $2.79
    TOTAL = $25.67

    OPTIONS FOR 2014-2015
    - Gay (P) @ $19.32
    - Johnson (T) @ $7.0
    - Hansborough (T) @ $3.33
    - Daye (T) @ $1.06
    - Stone (T) @ $0.95
    - Acy (T) @ $0.92
    - Buycks (T) @ $0.82
    TOTAL = $33.40

    If all options were picked-up, the Raptors would have 12 players under contract for $59.07M, plus the cap hold for their 2014 1st round pick. That would put them well over the salary cap, without even having a starting PG under contract (unless that's the 2014 1st round pick).

    Even if Gay & Johnson were the only options picked-up, then the Raptors would have 7 players under contract for $51.99M, plus the cap hold for their 2014 1st round pick. Re-signing Lowry would take up all remaining cap space. If Lowry is renounced, the Raps still don't have room for a max-contract free agent and have less than $10M to fill their roster (until they can only offer minimum contracts).

    Without making some moves this season to shed salary going into the offseason (whether that is a "tank" or not), there's no way MU can be a major player in free agency, unless Gay chooses to opt-out of his contract.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Nov 27, 2013, 03:54 PM.

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    • #47
      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
      As the roster currently stands, going the free agency route likely won't even be an option for MU in the offseason.

      SIGNED FOR 2014-2015
      - DeRozan @ $9.5
      - Fields @ $6.25
      - Novak @ $3.45
      - Valanciunas @ $3.68
      - Ross @ $2.79
      TOTAL = $25.67

      OPTIONS FOR 2014-2015
      - Gay (P) @ $19.32
      - Johnson (T) @ $7.0
      - Hansborough (T) @ $3.33
      - Daye (T) @ $1.06
      - Stone (T) @ $0.95
      - Acy (T) @ $0.92
      - Buycks (T) @ $0.82
      TOTAL = $33.40

      If all options were picked-up, the Raptors would have 12 players under contract for $59.07M, plus the cap hold for their 2014 1st round pick. That would put them well over the salary cap, without even having a starting PG under contract (unless that's the 2014 1st round pick).

      Even if Gay & Johnson were the only options picked-up, then the Raptors would have 7 players under contract for $51.99M, plus the cap hold for their 2014 1st round pick. Re-signing Lowry would take up all remaining cap space. If Lowry is renounced, the Raps still don't have room for a max-contract free agent and have less than $10M to fill their roster (until they can only offer minimum contracts).

      Without making some moves this season to shed salary going into the offseason (whether that is a "tank" or not), there's no way MU can be a major player in free agency, unless Gay chooses to opt-out of his contract.
      Not to mention the team options on Hansbrough and Amir have guaranteed money - $5M for Amir and $1M for T. So you can tack on $6M there.

      Comment


      • #48
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Not to mention the team options on Hansbrough and Amir have guaranteed money - $5M for Amir and $1M for T. So you can tack on $6M there.
        If the Raptors were to waive them, does the guaranteed portion count against the cap, or is it just paid to the player(s)? I was thinking that it would count against the MLSE pocket-book, but not the cap...

        Comment


        • #49
          CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
          As the roster currently stands, going the free agency route likely won't even be an option for MU in the offseason.

          SIGNED FOR 2014-2015
          - DeRozan @ $9.5
          - Fields @ $6.25
          - Novak @ $3.45
          - Valanciunas @ $3.68
          - Ross @ $2.79
          TOTAL = $25.67

          OPTIONS FOR 2014-2015
          - Gay (P) @ $19.32
          - Johnson (T) @ $7.0
          - Hansborough (T) @ $3.33
          - Daye (T) @ $1.06
          - Stone (T) @ $0.95
          - Acy (T) @ $0.92
          - Buycks (T) @ $0.82
          TOTAL = $33.40

          If all options were picked-up, the Raptors would have 12 players under contract for $59.07M, plus the cap hold for their 2014 1st round pick. That would put them well over the salary cap, without even having a starting PG under contract (unless that's the 2014 1st round pick).

          Even if Gay & Johnson were the only options picked-up, then the Raptors would have 7 players under contract for $51.99M, plus the cap hold for their 2014 1st round pick. Re-signing Lowry would take up all remaining cap space. If Lowry is renounced, the Raps still don't have room for a max-contract free agent and have less than $10M to fill their roster (until they can only offer minimum contracts).

          Without making some moves this season to shed salary going into the offseason (whether that is a "tank" or not), there's no way MU can be a major player in free agency, unless Gay chooses to opt-out of his contract.
          Wow, that's all a little depressing.

          Thanks for the outline.

          Comment


          • #50
            From this, it looks to me that, the way forward for a re-build of the Raptors involves getting rid of Gay no matter what direction is taken.

            Comment


            • #51
              Pele wrote: View Post
              Wow, that's all a little depressing.

              Thanks for the outline.
              haha I didn't mean to cause your day to take a turn for the worse! lol

              I think that depressing aspect of the team's roster/payroll situation is precisely why so many people have moved to the 'pro-tank' team. Without moving some of the high-priced players, it's going to be very difficult to improve this team (basically until Gay either opts-out or his contract expires). Plus, as long as this core is kept together (ie: this season and possibly next season), the team projects to be a middle-of-the-pack team that lives on the playoff bubble (ie: quite likely too bad for playoffs and too good to draft a potential franchise talent).

              A 'strategic tank' (ie: not a fire-sale sell-off of talent or a straight salary dump for crap) would move some of the high-priced players (ie: Gay & Lowry) at or before this season's trade deadline, for multiple reasons:
              - clear cap space for next offseason
              - acquire prospects
              - acquire draft picks
              - improve the lottery positioning of Toronto's own 2014 1st round pick

              All 4 of these factors would allow MU to begin proper sustainable team-building sooner, which would likely include free agency (per your suggestion) as part of the building process.
              Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Nov 27, 2013, 05:27 PM.

              Comment


              • #52
                MU has to convince Gay opt out - resign for 5 yr/$50 - 53M

                A good bench outside Ross/Amir and T should not cost more tahn $8-10 million..

                Perfect - $71 Salary Cap we a roster of

                Val (T Hans)
                Monroe (Amir)
                Gay
                Demar (Ross)
                Lowry

                Qcy
                Daye
                Buycks
                Stone
                Backup for Gay?? $2-3 M
                Vet PG - $ 2M

                Comment


                • #53
                  CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  If the Raptors were to waive them, does the guaranteed portion count against the cap, or is it just paid to the player(s)? I was thinking that it would count against the MLSE pocket-book, but not the cap...
                  Counts against cap.

                  Like how camby is on books for $646k next year

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    As the roster currently stands after MU trade for Greg Monroe in the at the trade deadline -

                    Fields + Novak +2014 1st round pick (Top 15 protected) for Greg Monroe + expirings

                    SIGNED FOR 2014-2015
                    - DeRozan @ $9.5
                    - Valanciunas @ $3.68
                    - Ross @ $2.79
                    TOTAL = $15.5

                    OPTIONS FOR 2014-2015
                    - Gay opt out - resign at 5 yrs/ $13.5
                    - Johnson (T) @ $7.0
                    - Hansborough (T) @ $3.33
                    - Daye (T) @ $1.06
                    - Stone (T) @ $0.95
                    - Acy (T) @ $0.92
                    - Buycks (T) @ $0.82
                    - PG (Lowry) $10.5
                    - Resign Monroe with rights $10.5
                    TOTAL = $49.00

                    Total 65 Million

                    We must can find a Vet PG and a decent backup for Gay $3 million each

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      15strong wrote: View Post
                      MU has to convince Gay opt out - resign for 5 yr/$50 - 53M

                      A good bench outside Ross/Amir and T should not cost more tahn $8-10 million..

                      Perfect - $71 Salary Cap we a roster of

                      Val (T Hans)
                      Monroe (Amir)
                      Gay
                      Demar (Ross)
                      Lowry

                      Qcy
                      Daye
                      Buycks
                      Stone
                      Backup for Gay?? $2-3 M
                      Vet PG - $ 2M
                      Why would any player throw away $19.3M only to sign with the same team? Any extension with Toronto must include the 2014-2015 season @ $19.3M and go from there...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        This debate was completely dismantled when the Raps hired Ujiri wasn't it? Isn't that the whole point of hiring him, to rebuild the franchise? I honestly just don't get it, if a person is for the Raptors tanking in order to get a high draft pick then that person probably doesn't really like basketball, but rather they like the look of basketball. A person who thinks like this doesn't enjoy watching a good hard played game, but rather the sexyness of a stat sheet. In all honesty I think allot of Raptor fans have been sucked into this IDIOTIC modern basketball game show. How many of these experts just completely shit on the Raptors, and then Raptors fans jump on board with the experts and shit talk their own team!? How about we start shit talking these experts and stick true with your team. Its bad when even the refs have a bias towards the Raptors. I've seen refs calling against the Raptors for so long now that I am getting ready to bail on this corrupt league. Last night against Brooklyn was a prime example, the refs lost the game for them. If I didn't have an allegiance to my Raptors I would say goodbye to the NBA and just support local sports.

                        Craig wrote: View Post
                        Hello Folks,

                        So, we have seen a significant amount of chatter, back and forth between guys wanting Toronto to completely rebuild, and others wishing to make whats here work now. We are calling one group "Tankers", and one group "anti-Tankers". It's important to understand that on both sides, there are guys and gals here who are astute, intelligent and in some cases experienced Basketball minds.

                        It's true, there are points on both sides, and the one really important reason, is that there isn't always one true way to build a franchise, it changes, always. but what remains is that the real issue guys need to look at is timing in the process of rebuilding. just where is your team?

                        I, am a steadfast "Tanker" guy. reason being, I believe the assembled talent has been looked at, I know it's being assessed, and whats here, likely cannot compete as built. This gets misunderstood as feeling that as a "tanker" I feel like Toronto will lose games, get a #1 guy and then win. This couldn't be further from the truth. What I'm advocating is a full on rebuild, from assessment, dismantling, developing, and then finishing touches. "anti tankers" point to Indiana as the model they like, when Indian, in reality, had to "tank" to begin the process they are now seeing great rewards from.

                        I read the following article on Hoopsworld. Maybe its been here before, maybe not. I hope you guys like it. It isn't super detailed, but what it does focus upon is a great understanding of what teams must do. Understanding that different Markets have different obstacles, and therefore the creativity has to be in place to conquer those. But make no mistake, whether you call it a tank, or an anti-tank, or whatever, when you team is consistently bad, a rebuild is necessary, and to do it right, you have to start at the bottom. Its slow. Its painful, but it will pay off.
                        Last edited by Green Maple Leaf; Wed Nov 27, 2013, 05:50 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          $19.5 million is only if we extend him...Gay must buy in if he want to be part of winning team and play with new buddy Demar - Opts out - resign new longer contract 5 yr/ $13.5 more reasonable..

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            15strong wrote: View Post
                            As the roster currently stands after MU trade for Greg Monroe in the at the trade deadline -

                            Fields + Novak +2014 1st round pick (Top 15 protected) for Greg Monroe + expirings

                            SIGNED FOR 2014-2015
                            - DeRozan @ $9.5
                            - Valanciunas @ $3.68
                            - Ross @ $2.79
                            TOTAL = $15.5

                            OPTIONS FOR 2014-2015
                            - Gay opt out - resign at 5 yrs/ $13.5
                            - Johnson (T) @ $7.0
                            - Hansborough (T) @ $3.33
                            - Daye (T) @ $1.06
                            - Stone (T) @ $0.95
                            - Acy (T) @ $0.92
                            - Buycks (T) @ $0.82
                            - PG (Lowry) $10.5
                            - Resign Monroe with rights $10.5
                            TOTAL = $49.00

                            Total 65 Million

                            We must can find a Vet PG and a decent backup for Gay $3 million each

                            This has BC fingerprint all over it. No thank you. For one simple reason... this is not a championship team even with the development of two young (promising) bigs. The more I watch #22 in Raps uniform the less I like it. So the second reason... is that I don't believe this this team could contend with Gay as one of the key elements (probably no team, for that matter...) - this is purely subjective. Finally, I don't want to surrender 2014 pick. No way. Ujiri is known for finding talent late in the draft. In nothing else works out - let him pick 2 young players in a loaded draft. Who knows, maybe the bball gods will smile on us that way.

                            The real question of this tank/no-tank dilemma is how long you give this team/management till they gather a contending (even if it's young) roster...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I agree it's does not look like a championship team but I think we can be conference finalist in 2-3 yrs.. IF gay is willing to opt out adn resign at $13.5 that is good deal we can trade if it's doesn't work after year #1.. I still the tank option is a minmum of 5 years. as core mebers we could keep is ross & Val.. DD/Amir/Lowry/Gay would have to move on.. The minimum I am willing to wait is 2 years to see meaning games in April/May.. I tank option would get us there in 2 years. More sign & trade pieces taht don't fit.. MU & TL will be under pressure come 2016 All Star game .. that is big rebranding.. The worst decision a business can do is rebrand with scrap..

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                the 2016 rebranding will require a team
                                1. on the tip of a deep playoff run
                                2. push to make the playoff after temporay fix (2014/2015)
                                3. preparing to make a major splash in trade or F/A - example Brookyn Nets rebranding with DWill signing, Joe J trade and Lopez resign..

                                MU & TL will need to make one of these happen.. if i was betting I would say #1 is their option..
                                as you want your new brand everywhere.. on the tip of the everyone tongue and they want a piece of it..

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