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  • Thought I would post this video I just saw about the Knicks, Bargnani and how Bargnani has affected their team.

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    • Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post


      Thought I would post this video I just saw about the Knicks, Bargnani and how Bargnani has affected their team.
      Someone needs to show this to Craiger, who seems obsessed with wanting Bargnani to succeed (why he does, is beyond me).

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      • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
        Someone needs to show this to Craiger, who seems obsessed with wanting Bargnani to succeed (why he does, is beyond me).
        Count me amongst those who have no animosity towards ex-Raptors, as long as they don't hurt our chances as a team. And cheering in the background, as they toil on another team, is not obsessive.

        I've had this argument before about attaching oneself to specific players, as if that implies allegiance to a team suffers. I follow Jose, Andrea, and to a lesser extent Davis. Even Carter fits that description, although he holds a more significant place in one's memory. He was the one and only Toronto player who brought me from casual fan, to a somewhat obsessed fan (for Toronto and basketball in general).

        .

        Jose QB's a team that sits at 9-4. It includes our former BooBoy Carter, a rejuvenated Monta Ellis, a return to form Dirk Nowitski, and Maid Marion running strong.

        Toronto - the management - treated JC with waivering respect, always bringing in a better "potential", only to see Jose grab back the reins of power. He was as loyal as they get. I miss the guy. That sentiment probably exists for many Raptor fans. Sure he was a poor defender, but he could run the team well enough. We just had too many poor defenders, from SG right through to Centre, that exasperated his weakness. Teams that are built on their PG (ala Rose, Westbrook, Paul), can also die by that philosophy. And yes, losing Lebron would kill Miami. Point is, Contender teams don't need a Rose to win, despite how that seems to be a sentiment gathering steam these days.

        As for Andrea, he sits 1st in efg% for a stuggling team, that this report ("Don't Blame Melo") implies is his fault. Hard to win when your team has the "highest disparity" amongst the NBA in possessions between the 1st and 2nd option.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi5CpP2Di5c

        [Edit: the Knicks lead the NBA in percentage of isolation plays (13.2)]

        Add a SG (and 6th man award player) nailling them at a .310 rate (on 14.5 shots per game), while your PG shoots .376 (.206 - 3pt%) and for whom he makes Jose's defense seem good. Plus losing Chandler has made a huge difference in rim protection.

        .

        Then there is Ed Davis probably wishing he was back with Toronto, and in that comfortable role of being a Bench Big who can fill in when the Starter goes down. Worse thing that happened to him, was getting traded to Memphis. Sure they have high hopes for him, but are disappointed with where he is now. IMO, Toronto inflated his value, and that could cost him in the form of a shorter career. Of course, that's all conjecture.

        .

        Never-the-less, I wish our fans would let go of the past. Harping on Craiger cause he wants AB to succeed, is the reason why Toronto will toil in obscurity. Beating up on Carter does nothing for our image - especially when being in Canada turns off most NBA players - whether they admit that or not. "It's a beautiful city ...yada yada yada." So why don't they come? If we're such a beautiful city, why - even with a star like Carter - does Hedo become the top free agent signing since I can remember.

        If we wish to succeed in our handicapped fashion, then it's time to change the bashing. And wish ex's well. Just like having an Ex spouse. The more you berate them - it's their fault we're in this place - the more miserable your life is. Get over it. You'll like yourself better.

        End of rant. lol

        .
        Last edited by RapthoseLeafs; Sat Nov 23, 2013, 07:14 PM.

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        • WTF is that?

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          • The end
            speechless
            Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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            • Bargs PER 16.59..that's like his career high? Say HELLO to bargs, Knicks 3-10.

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              • Having a great game tonight against the Clippers.

                I'm happy for the guy.
                You can see him on the floor, he's calling guys out, yelling plays; he's comfortable.
                I don't think he ever truly was in Toronto, whether it was because of pressure or what. Who knows.

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                • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                  Having a great game tonight against the Clippers.

                  I'm happy for the guy.
                  You can see him on the floor, he's calling guys out, yelling plays; he's comfortable.
                  I don't think he ever truly was in Toronto, whether it was because of pressure or what. Who knows.
                  18/10/3 blks is all we could have hoped for every 2 or 3 games dammit...

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                    • Andrea Bargnani 20 PT 8-18 FG 4-4 FT 0-2 3P 10/4 RB 1 AS 4 BL 0 ST 0 TO 3 PF 38 MN (Final, Clippers)

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                      • Guess Toronto was the problem, surprise surprise.

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                        • Craig wrote: View Post
                          Guess Toronto was the problem, surprise surprise.
                          Yo Craig, its one thing to defend bargnani, but this line right here is what we know you have always insinuated and does not stand.

                          Other factors and considerations to Bargnanis play:

                          - Is not the focal point with Carmelo on his team
                          - He was always a decent player on offense, but he has always been a negative influence on the court for his team, still is.
                          - 14 game 'decent' streaks are expected
                          - His rebounding numbers have to do with him being like the only big on the floor at times and so naturally getting the defensive rebounds. Also the knicks miss ALOT of shots, more rebounds are available.
                          - He has had better entire seasons as a Raptor (stats wise) than this start of the season.

                          To argue that there is some distinct internal property distinguishing the Raptors organization and the Knicks organization that allows Bargnani to 'blossom' you would have to isolate all the other factors that could lead a Bargnani to have decent stats to start the season. Seeing as how he is not better efficiency-wise or just in general, I dont know why you feel you can shoot down Toronto because he is playing decent ball (instead of horrid ball like I guess you expect)

                          EDIT: 'Hot streak' became 'Decent streak' (46%, 35.7%, 79%, 5.4 rebs, 15 ppg in past 14 games)

                          Seasons where he has played better as a Raptor compared to now as a Knick: 08/09 and 09/10.
                          Last edited by enlightenment; Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:42 PM.
                          The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                          • Hmm.....

                            nah, as a franchise Toronto has sucked, from start till now.... As a franchise, NYK, well they are the Knicks.


                            Bargnani was under performing last year, he isn't that bad. I think it was sad that the media and fans here used him as an excuse for what all all knew was a bigger issue. Its a joke really.

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                            • Mack North wrote: View Post
                              18/10/3 blks is all we could have hoped for every 2 or 3 games dammit...
                              Seriously. Buut they're losing a lot, so there's that.


                              Mack, your avatar makes me smile.

                              EDIT Did that sound like I was hitting on you, or is it just me? Hahah

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                              • RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
                                Hibbert, who AB guarded for most of the game (had foul issues + fouled out in OT), was held to 8 pts 8 Rbs. That included a long & wild (and very rare for him) 3 pt bank shot at the end of the 1st quarter. Suffice to say AB kept him in check.

                                Been watching both Jose & Andrea in some games. Both are leading their teams in efg% for the "Shooters" on the team (>5 shots per game), so it appears a change was good for both. Dallas with JC have been clicking well (8-4), while New York has not - although they're missing their best defensive guy and have a PG with bad wheels. Plus Carmelo Anthony has had a rough start. JR Smith (Rob Ford's mentor) is not getting high enough (.385 efg%). And Amare is just ........



                                .
                                The issue with Jose and Andrea in Toronto is the same as it was for a lot of players:

                                fans, media, coaches, but most importantly, management thought they were better than they were and/or had them carrying too much of a load relative to their skill/ability as players.

                                You're asking 2nd fiddles to play lead.
                                3rd bananas to play up.
                                bench player sto start
                                3rd string/D-League to be your backups.

                                These guys will likely all succeed elsewhere (and many have including Jack, Belinelli, Bayless, etc.) because they are asked to play within their skillset and ability because guys with better ability/skills are asked/expected to rightfully do more.

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