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Raptors Least Efficient Team In League?

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  • #16
    Maleko wrote: View Post
    I would say I still support it. I would agree (choke cough hack wheeze) wilth Multipaul that it is a reasonable contract, especially when signed, and especially considering the potential that was there at the time of signing. I would be ok paying him that as a 6th man if we had a true starting 4 & 5, but still pushing for him to get traded.

    Ok, back to the Paul...
    Love or hate him, it is a damn good contract in terms of what you are getting for the $$$. THink about some of the other overpaid hacks out there cough cough Baron Davis cough cough Elton Brand

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    • #17
      Multipaul wrote: View Post
      Love or hate him, it is a damn good contract in terms of what you are getting for the $$$. THink about some of the other overpaid hacks out there cough cough Baron Davis cough cough Elton Brand
      Yep. Add in Peja, Dalembert, Kenyon Martin, Rashard Lewis (!), Micheal Redd, and Gilbert Arenas. Some of them made sense, sorta, at signing, but a few are head slappers instead of scratchers!

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      • #18
        Maleko wrote: View Post
        Yep. Add in Peja, Dalembert, Kenyon Martin, Rashard Lewis (!), Micheal Redd, and Gilbert Arenas. Some of them made sense, sorta, at signing, but a few are head slappers instead of scratchers!
        Eddie Curry...the poster child for the movement against guaranteed contracts in a cap system.

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        • #19
          Multipaul wrote: View Post
          You guys all supported the deal when he signed it
          I didn't hate the deal, but my problem with it is that it's not in line with what his role SHOULD be. That of a bench player.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

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          • #20
            Multipaul wrote: View Post
            LMAO, says the guy with the James Johnson avatar lol
            james johnson has a much bigger impact than andrea bargnani. James johnson is a shot blocking machine gun. Bargnani can't block a pre schooler in slow motion.

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            • #21
              Bendit wrote: View Post
              Eddie Curry...the poster child for the movement against guaranteed contracts in a cap system.
              Oh yah. I was just going from the top 30 player salary list. These are the players that make me want this too, play for pay.

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              • #22
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                How is he justifying that Bargnani is worth his money but Calderon and Barbosa aren't? Calderon has better advanced stats than Bargnani, yet makes about the same amount. Or did this guy just look at ppg?
                Agreed. None of them are worth that much.

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                • #23
                  Multipaul wrote: View Post
                  Love or hate him, it is a damn good contract in terms of what you are getting for the $$$. THink about some of the other overpaid hacks out there cough cough Baron Davis cough cough Elton Brand
                  It's certainly not a "damn good" contract. He's putting up the points, but nothing else. Again, looking at his PER, he's slightly above average, in terms of production, but he's making well above average. You keep focusing on points when there are so many other aspects of the game.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                  Follow me on Twitter.

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                  • #24
                    octothorp wrote: View Post
                    There's a massive flaw with this type of calculation: quite often, teams that are near the bottom of standings will look to make moves mid-season that take on significant salary in the short term, in order to buy themselves salary flexibility in the long-term. In our case, that's Peja. The author never mentions him in the article, but if you subtract Peja's nearly 15 million from our payroll, we drop down to about 2.5 million per. Same story as with Minnesota and Curry (who the author does mention - makes you wonder why he explained it for Curry but didn't for Peja, when Peja actually distorts the numbers more). Point is that from our perspective, efficiency this year was sacrificed for flexibility going forward, a trade-off that every GM would make.
                    Actually, I think that's kind of the point isn't it? From a pure financial standpoint, poorly managed teams, are paying out hard earned cash on contracts that produce poorly. In the case of Peja and Curry, it's even worse, they are getting nothing but 'future' cap space. In the case of those fiscally inefficient teams, they end up having to take on salary in order to dump their own problem players (e.g. Jack, Banks) and/or acquire potentially useful assets (e.g. Bayless, Juju).

                    Now when Peja comes off the books, we will become more financially efficient. But history has shown that BC just cannot resist overpaying for mid-tier talent, and immediately using up whatever cap space becomes available.

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                    • #25
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      It's certainly not a "damn good" contract. He's putting up the points, but nothing else. Again, looking at his PER, he's slightly above average, in terms of production, but he's making well above average. You keep focusing on points when there are so many other aspects of the game.
                      Tim, why bother? They're not going to get it. Simmons says, and I think he's right, that Bargnani gives up 2 points for every point he scores (or something to that effect). Even if the other Raps players wanted to play hard on D, Bargnani's ineptitude sabotages their efforts because he's their backstop. Bargnani is an eighth or ninth man on a winning team. Two drunk fans could run a pick and roll on Calderon and Bargnani and get two points at the basket every time.

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                      • #26
                        Brandon wrote: View Post
                        Tim, why bother? They're not going to get it. Simmons says, and I think he's right, that Bargnani gives up 2 points for every point he scores (or something to that effect). Even if the other Raps players wanted to play hard on D, Bargnani's ineptitude sabotages their efforts because he's their backstop. Bargnani is an eighth or ninth man on a winning team. Two drunk fans could run a pick and roll on Calderon and Bargnani and get two points at the basket every time.
                        Thanks Brandon Walsh!

                        Simmons is never wrong or biased! Good call!

                        PS- check out Wayne Winston's site, a real basketball guru, see what he says about Bargs!

                        Say hi to Steve Sanders!

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                        • #27
                          First off the only person in the world who you can find in the media who supports your stance is Winston. That should tell you a lot right there.

                          Second. Simmons isn't the basketball ruler of the world and gets things wrong like anybody else. The reference to this article is difficult to form an opinion on one way or another when the article isn't actually posted here for us to see.

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                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            First off the only person in the world who you can find in the media who supports your stance is Winston. That should tell you a lot right there.

                            Second. Simmons isn't the basketball ruler of the world and gets things wrong like anybody else. The reference to this article is difficult to form an opinion on one way or another when the article isn't actually posted here for us to see.
                            I can post my references:

                            1. Wayne Winston: http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=1047

                            2. Ian Thomsen: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1J1DcV4mi

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                            • #29
                              So many Bargnani haters.

                              Bargnani will never be a rebounding, gritty center. Thats just not his game.

                              Brooke lopez is also not a good a rebounder, or a good defensive player for that matter. But no one is blaming him for the Nets deficiencies.

                              Clearly the raptors need defensive players to compliment bargs, if we could somehow swing a deal for ron artest, or draft a defensive sf, the raps would be looking alot better right now.

                              Watch Derozan, he is one of the worst players on the raps defensively, but he continues to get praised. Everyone needs their whipping boy, but Bargnani is the player we thought he was, and is and will continue to be one the best scoring big-men in the league.

                              If the raps get a center (move ab to pf), a small forward, and possibly a pointguard. We would have a good team. In doing this we would probably have to trade Amir, because he would be a redundant player in this scenario.

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                              • #30
                                In a high ball movement system its much easier to find guys to supplement the offense due to a lack of scoring punch than it is to find a bunch of strong defensive players and rebounders to try and hide Bargnani's horrible defense and rebounding.

                                What the die hard Bargnani supporters fail to get is that in successful franchises, the top player makes everyone else better. In poor franchises typically the top player needs a bunch of other guys to make him better.

                                And I'm not saying that it's all about the one guy on good teams. No, but that one guy usually doesn't need two crutches to make him seem viable as the top player.

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