The myopia of Toronto Raptor fans- Starting 5 grades compared to the NBA/ Projection

[Thom]

so someone said something delusional, and i said "lol right"...

if you think that is being a smart ass, then there's nothing i can do, and i really dont care.

You obviously care or you wouldn't have argued your pathetic points for an entire page.

Anyhow, I don't think that is being a smartass... I know that is being a smartass. You are a smartass. And what he said was not delusional. The only person whose been delusional is you. Anyone who reads this thread is going to think you are a pathetic piece of shit and they'd be right in thinking so. Have a good one.

[Legalize-It]

You obviously care or you wouldn't have argued your pathetic points for an entire page.

Anyhow, I don't think that is being a smartass... I know that is being a smartass. You are a smartass. And what he said was not delusional. The only person whose been delusional is you. Anyone who reads this thread is going to think you are a pathetic piece of shit and they'd be right in thinking so. Have a good one.

oh god, what am i going to do ? thom doesnt like me anymore... oh noooooooo

[Legalize-It]

thom, i can go back and quote all your posts in this thread, and i cant find one single argument that you have made that is backed up by facts...

this is why having a discussion with people like yourself is completely pointless...

its like the guy who said bargs is better than kg offensively...

you wana use PER and other stats nba gm's use and debate whether or not DD or amir or anyone on the raps have improved ? just ask...

you think bargs can create his own shot ? really ? go check out his fg% on shots without an assist...

you think amir has cut down on his fouls ? yea go check out his per 36

finally, there is a pill you can take... it's called grow-a-set, and it mite be able to help you make an opinion without caring or being scared of what other people (on an internet forum of all places) think...

take care,

[ibzilla]

thom, i can go back and quote all your posts in this thread, and i cant find one single argument that you have made that is backed up by facts...

this is why having a discussion with people like yourself is completely pointless...

its like the guy who said bargs is better than kg offensively...

you wana use PER and other stats nba gm's use and debate whether or not DD or amir or anyone on the raps have improved ? just ask...

you think bargs can create his own shot ? really ? go check out his fg% on shots without an assist...

you think amir has cut down on his fouls ? yea go check out his per 36

finally, there is a pill you can take... it's called grow-a-set, and it mite be able to help you make an opinion without caring or being scared of what other people (on an internet forum of all places) think...

take care,

Well said

[Thom]

Well said

Please. Are you seriously siding with this guy. Oh wait, it's the OP ibzilla who's already been torn to shreds in this thread. Not one person agreed with your analyisis ibzilla, except for Legalize-It... the one and only poor sucker who kind of agreed with you. Well, at least you two got eachother, but some advice for the future, lay off the weed kids, it's impairing your judgement.

[Legalize-It]

Please. Are you seriously siding with this guy. Oh wait, it's the OP ibzilla who's already been torn to shreds in this thread. Not one person agreed with your analyisis ibzilla, except for Legalize-It... the one and only poor sucker who kind of agreed with you. Well, at least you two got eachother, but some advice for the future, lay off the weed kids, it's impairing your judgement.

another post filled with nothing but facts, stats, and empirical data...

you are a real asset to have on this forum and dont let anyone tell you different

[ibzilla]

Please. Are you seriously siding with this guy. Oh wait, it's the OP ibzilla who's already been torn to shreds in this thread. Not one person agreed with your analyisis ibzilla, except for Legalize-It... the one and only poor sucker who kind of agreed with you. Well, at least you two got eachother, but some advice for the future, lay off the weed kids, it's impairing your judgement.

My whole point to starting this thread was that Raptor fans are myopic and over-rate their own players and thanks to people like you, not Legalize-It, it only strengthens my argument. Nonsensical arguments like Bargnani is better than KG, Amir Johnson and Derozan have tons of potential only make my point for me as there is absolutely no stats to back it up. My point is that Raptor fans have to be more realistic with what they have and not over-rate this team and learn from our mistakes. Raptor fans believed in building around Chris Bosh for 7 years and it led to 0 playoff series wins and Chris Bosh was a much better player than anyone on the Raptors right now even as a 2nd year player. So be logical for a minute; If Bosh and company can't take you past the 1st round, do you really expect Andrea and company to surpass or equal Bosh when he isn't as good? If you learned anything from the Bosh era is that building around a B level star isn't going to get you anywhere and this team doesn't even have that. And if anybody believes that Derozan/Andrea/Amir/Davis has that capability, I would ask them to please watch some non Raptor NBA games after making that statement as no one south of the border even knows who these guys are as they are considered scrubs. Bosh made 5 all stars as a B level star and the only appearance these guys will ever make at the all star games is the Dunk and 3 point Competition

[JoePanini]

Ibzilla, we were bad with Bosh. We are bad without him. We can only improve, especially with no player demanding max salaries, and many youngsters. I believe in being realistic, but you gotta be optimistic as well.

[Legalize-It]

Ibzilla, we were bad with Bosh. We are bad without him. We can only improve, especially with no player demanding max salaries, and many youngsters. I believe in being realistic, but you gotta be optimistic as well.

why do you say "we can only improve"...

because as optimistic as that is, it's not entirely accurate.

it IS possible to get worse if management makes bad decisions.

look at the clippers, knicks, warriors, t'wolves... for the last 10 years these teams's fans were thinking the team will get better, and they didnt.

so you can improve, or you can be stuck as a 8-15 team for a long time...

[Copywryter]

Here is an example of a clueless fan of basketball.

Have you checked Barnani's numbers from year to year? Have you seen him handle double teams this year? Have you noticed he's on a great contract for a third option player? Have you noticed Amir isn't getting into foul trouble as much? Have you noticed DeRozan getting to the line more frequently and developing a jumper? Even Calderon is returning to his former self. He could start for a lot of teams. His defense is suspect, but he's improved playing the passing lanes and even Rose has trouble containing most point guards.

You should be laughing at yourself.

Numbers don't mean anything. Have you compared Bargs' minutes to his numbers from year to year? Have you noticed any shooting consistency or consistent defensive effort? Have you noticed DeRozan can't go to his left, has a weak handle and is a shooting guard that can neither guard nor shoot?

This isn't a clueless fan of basketball, he's a realist who watches other teams and is tired of hearing about how much ceiling and potential our players have.

[Legalize-It]

My whole point to starting this thread was that Raptor fans are myopic and over-rate their own players and thanks to people like you, not Legalize-It, it only strengthens my argument. Nonsensical arguments like Bargnani is better than KG, Amir Johnson and Derozan have tons of potential only make my point for me as there is absolutely no stats to back it up. My point is that Raptor fans have to be more realistic with what they have and not over-rate this team and learn from our mistakes. Raptor fans believed in building around Chris Bosh for 7 years and it led to 0 playoff series wins and Chris Bosh was a much better player than anyone on the Raptors right now even as a 2nd year player. So be logical for a minute; If Bosh and company can't take you past the 1st round, do you really expect Andrea and company to surpass or equal Bosh when he isn't as good? If you learned anything from the Bosh era is that building around a B level star isn't going to get you anywhere and this team doesn't even have that. And if anybody believes that Derozan/Andrea/Amir/Davis has that capability, I would ask them to please watch some non Raptor NBA games after making that statement as no one south of the border even knows who these guys are as they are considered scrubs. Bosh made 5 all stars as a B level star and the only appearance these guys will ever make at the all star games is the Dunk and 3 point Competition

very good point...

i think some people cant be honest with themselves and make an honest evaluation of this team... and then they hope for a miracle by locking down that 8th seed and hoping for a cinderella run in the playoffs...

[ahoang]

We're winning most of the games that we should be and the ones we're expected to lose are still being kept in check. Surprisingly we steal some games from elites (Boston/Orlando).
Clearly the sum of the team is greater than each individual part, but not on a consistent basis. Team ball is key as almost all of them are horrendous in trying to create their own shot.

As a fan/SSH, I went into the season not expecting much. Get our young guys to mesh and develop and get excited for a Lakers/Heat final and cross my fingers for our high lottery draft pick. We're barely outside the playoffs and clearly don't deserve to be, but it's been pretty exciting so far (besides all the losing).

You have to remember we only have 4 lottery players on our team. Bayless, DD, Davis and Bargs. I don't want to get into the 'potential' debate because it's a reoccuring debacle for the Raptors (Arujo/Graham comes to mind)

I'm torn on BC. On one hand, he focuses on forest rather than just the tree but I feel he does too much of that. There needs to be a balance in focusing on both now and the future as the now (defense) is smacking him in the face.


I know I'm all over the place lol. It's just hard trying to express how I feel about the team and not rip them up too much. I will say that we're doing much better than expected, but there is plenty to fix/improve.

[Joey]

deleting my account after reading this thread. MERRY CHRISTMAS you idiots.

HAHAHAHAH

I won't go this far but I can't disagree. This thread is ridiculous. Though I respect any and all opinions, as sports is a hot bed of differeing view points, these are the kind of fans I'd rather not share said opinion.

derozan weems amir are the young shit squad, calderon and andrea are nice pieces andrea makes 3rd option kind of money go cry if ya disagree

btw feel free to make soft euro quotes in this topic it's all its lacking from being a complete shitstorm

Weems and Amir I whole heartedly agree have lost alot of stalk in my market.
I still say Derozan will be something special. Dude's still only 21.

And ya Bargs will be making $10mil flat for another few years, so IF he does develop as we'd all like him to this year and next, then he's a bargain.

[Joey]

AND

I AM one of those fans who believes in our players.
I AM one of those fans who believes that MAYBE something will happen.
Because with sports I'm allowed too.
It doesn't make me a bad person.
It doesn't make me stupid.
It doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
It means that instead of just settling for a shitty team, and accepting a shitty record, I hope that maybe we'll play like we play'd Orlando earlier in the season, every game. And that Derozan will play like he play'd against the Lakers, every game. Because it COULD happen. And for people like you to harp on the REAL optimists, is pretty ridiculous.
Let us enjoy sports as it was supposed to be. And not just call for everyone to be fired and traded. Enjoy what we've got. We're still better then alot of teams out there, and I GUARENTEE you, that those teams have fans who dream just as much as I do.

Get over it. Some people are actual optimists. Doesn't mean we're delusional.

[Raptorsss]

People, this team is still playing above expectations. The core is under 25 years old and still learning to play together. With the injuries it shouldn't be a surprise that this team is struggling.

Look at last night, they lost because they beat themselves. Too many turnovers and not making their free throws. A team that beats themselves like that, are a perfect example of team that's struggling and inexperienced. Nothing here should be a surprise.

The jury is still out on Weems and Derozan, can these guys put together consistent efforts game-in and game out? Can our pg's stop turning the ball over?