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What a Win .... Take That Boston.

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  • #76
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    My prediction was that the Raptors were going to finish the season with 28 wins. And right now that's the rate that they're at. And I've never "hated" Bargnani. I've often been critical of him, and with due cause, but I've also defended him in a number of arguments. I am a very big fan of the Raptors. There's nothing I want more than for them to eventually win the Championship. And because of that, I am passionate in certain beliefs.

    I have been extremely supportive of the way the team has performed this season, and the pieces that the team has. I've been vocal in my support for what the Raptors did in the offseason.

    This reminds me a lot of what was going on in the US during the Bush administration. People who were critical of him, or the war in Iraq were labelled anti-American even though that couldn't be further from the truth. They were critical, in part, BECAUSE they loved their country. They didn't want to stand by and watch it be destroyed from within.

    Bargnani is a very talented offensive player, but because I am a fan of the Raptors, I cannot stand by and say nothing when I feel that he cannot be part of the future if the goal is to win a Championship. You can disagree with me on that point, but please don't question my loyalty to the Raptors because you couldn't be more wrong.

    I am a fan, but not one who blindly follows and cheers whoever they put in front of me. I'm a fan who is able to look at the team objectively and be critical when it is called for.

    As far my comment about the 5 game losing streak, I'm simply being realistic. They've already gone on a 6 game losing streak this season. Last season they went on three 5 game losing streaks, and that team won 40 games. Teams go through streaks, both good and bad. Young and inexperienced teams like the Raptors will have their fair share. The thing, though, is even during their losing streaks, I will still remain positive because I tend to look at the big picture, rather than ride the wave from game to game.

    During the preseason, when everyone was asking what happened to Bargnani because he couldn't score, I was one of the few that said I wasn't worried about his scoring, because I knew that was something he was good at. When everyone was saying that Calderon should be traded at the beginning of the year because he was playing like crap, I was confident he would pull himself back up.

    The problem with the majority of the Raptor fan base is they get too high on the wins and too low on the losses. They don't see the forest for the trees. I'm not like that. Don't insult me because of it.
    I know that your a big Raptors fan, its obvious you know allot about the team and basketball as well. I also will commend you for that fact that your not an erratic fan who is pumped when the team is up, but a hater when they are losing; neutral. I guess with you Tim, I just get confused with why you need to take the role you do. I also want the Raps to win a championship more then anything, I get goosebumps thinking about it! But regardless of the players that are out there, I will cheer them on regardless because thats what a real fan does. We weren't in the discussion of what a real fan is anyways, so I'll just shut my mouth now.

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    • #77
      Tim W. wrote: View Post
      I'm sorry, but blaming Bargnani's weakness on how he's been handled is a cop out. Bargnani has been given every chance to succeed. He was groomed from day one to take over the center position and allowed to develop at his own rate. He wasn't thrown out into fray immediately, and wasn't left to stagnate on the bench. Besides, my main concern with Bargnani has absolutely nothing to do with what he does on the offensive end.

      Bargnani has been a below average rebounder and defender since he was drafted. Without the pressure to be the main scorer, Bargnani should have been able to focus on developing those skills, but he hasn't. There is simply no excuse. If Bargnani were better in these areas, or if I felt we'd seen some half decent development over the last four years, I wouldn't have a problem. But I haven't. And I simply feel you can't win with a big man who is a liability in these two extremely important areas.
      I do not agree with you. Bargnani is not a below average defender (I agree rebounder). Defense is a team effort and you cannot blame a single guy if your team is hammered on the defensive end of the court. Andrea lacks in toughness when it comes to rebounding. He will improve in that when he will gain the experience and the confidence that comes in being the first option the guy to go.

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      • #78
        Len wrote: View Post
        I do not agree with you. Bargnani is not a below average defender (I agree rebounder). Defense is a team effort and you cannot blame a single guy if your team is hammered on the defensive end of the court. Andrea lacks in toughness when it comes to rebounding. He will improve in that when he will gain the experience and the confidence that comes in being the first option the guy to go.
        Bargnani is a bad defender. And bringing up team effort doesn't help him. Our team is by no means a good defending team, but players like Amir Johnson, Sonny Weems and DeRozan have athleticism which helps them, also Amir's team defense is pretty decent. Bargnani, not so much. He is improving, he had a couple of good plays, on good nights but not good enough to "not be a below average" defender.

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        • #79
          heinz57 wrote: View Post
          in Tim's defense.. he's one of the few bargs critics on this board who i'll actually give some credit to... unlike the vast majority of bargs haters, he actually backs up his arguments.. i dont usually agree with him, but you cant ignore somebody who makes a legit argument..

          unfortunately, he usually gets lumped in with the rest of the bargs-haters... most of whom are unintelligible dishpigs.
          +1

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          • #80
            Buddahfan wrote: View Post
            Please

            There are at least a dozen or so good websites out there already that have the Raptors stats including the advanced ones in one form or another.

            All that needs to be done is to link these web sites somewhere on Raptors Republic that is noticeable and accessible.

            No big deal
            Would you be so kind Buddha, in showing me how?

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            • #81
              Len wrote: View Post
              I do not agree with you. Bargnani is not a below average defender (I agree rebounder). Defense is a team effort and you cannot blame a single guy if your team is hammered on the defensive end of the court. Andrea lacks in toughness when it comes to rebounding. He will improve in that when he will gain the experience and the confidence that comes in being the first option the guy to go.
              This is a common claim as to why Bargnani's defense isn't as bad as it appears. Unfortunately it doesn't hold water. First of all, Amir is a very good team defender, despite the shortcomings of the team. Also, Bargnani's problems have nothing to do with anyone else. You just have to watch him on the court to see that. He really doesn't seem to have a clue of when to rotate and where to go when he does rotate. I've never seen a big man make so many bad decisions playing team defense before. Even in the Boston game, which was supposedly a good game for him, I constantly saw Bargnani not rotate when he was supposed to, not rotate hard enough when he did, etc countless times. And I wasn't even looking for it.

              And Bargnani's man-to-man defense is often vastly overrated. He defends well against a very specific type of offensive player some of the time. He struggles most of the time he has to move his feet or make decisions on defense.

              Even JoePanini, who is a Bargnani fan, admits that Bargnani is a very poor defensive player.
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