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Now I Know Why They Call Bargnani "Ill Mago"!

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  • #16
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    I believe there is a better solution than wishing for mediocrity for a chance at more mediocrity. This self defeating mentality of playing for the lotto, it has gotten the Raptors where in 15 years?



    He's a center because Jay and Brian call him a center. Stats and opinion don't decide position, management does.

    He rebounds on defense, not on offense. Its hard to get offensive boards when your coach has you out on the perimeter. Can he improve in that part of his game? Certainly, I agree he needs more work but to say he "doesn't rebound" is pure b.s. Go read the stat line for this season. He's 37th in the league in defensive rebounding and seeing how you like to compare him to Dirk, he's only averaging 1.5 total rebounds less per game than him while playing four less minutes.




    The Raptors organization has never called him a star or the savior. Colangelo called him a project. He's made great improvement so far and I expect more to come seeing how he's still so young. Has been reported as hard working and dedicated.



    Not sure how you can question his passion for the game when all he wants to do year round is play ball. If he's not here, he's playing for his national team. I don't see anyone question Tim Duncan's cold exterior. Not everyone wears their heart on their sleeve. Consistency is an issue but that's got nothing to do with heart.
    I never compared him to DIrk !! haha and i never wanted him to be a savior or franchise player all i want from the guy because i am a fan, is effort night and night out thats all, he's a different type of center we can all agree on that but to disappear complete in games is just unacceptable IMO. He may be hard working and have all the talent in the world but when it comes down to it he cant translate it to games on a nightly basis contribute somehow not just 11pts and -24 like on that philly game .
    "Hello, Hello !.....You Play to Win the GAME!!"

    Herm Edwards

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    • #17
      Consistency is an issue and he did have a bad game on defense but you can't blame the low scoring on him. He did shoot 50% from the field. Its on Jay and the ball handlers to see that he gets his looks. He's the type of player where his offense fuels his overall game. Some of his best defensive nights have come on nights where he's been lights out and was being fed the ball. How does a guy, who's a key piece to the offense, play 40 minutes, shoot 50% from the field and only get ten shots? That's on Jay and the guards.

      I think Bargnani is going to have his ups and downs through his career, he's just one of those guys. It doesn't mean he can't help a team win a ring, he just can't be the #1.
      Last edited by Apollo; Mon Mar 8, 2010, 06:40 PM.

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      • #18
        "Not sure how you can question his passion for the game when all he wants to do year round is play ball. If he's not here, he's playing for his national team. I don't see anyone question Tim Duncan's cold exterior. Not everyone wears their heart on their sleeve. Consistency is an issue but that's got nothing to do with heart. "

        I believe by writing "there is a problem of some sort...", I was suggesting I was unsure about the reason/s for his incontistency (as you put it). I would just say that he has a problem getting his nose dirty as is required to maintain an inside presence in the nba game. This was manifested when with CB absent it was incumbent on other big starters to bring it in all manner of ways. Do you honestly think he changed his game to be more assertive in any way?

        "Passion" has got nothing necessarily to do with going to work at one's job. Metaphorically, If one has to dig a ditch everyday as a job, it doesnt flow that you do it well or with enthusiasm. Like I said, imo, there is something missing (intensity is how I would describe "passion") on the court with Bargs which btw Duncan has in spades when he plays. And I hope it comes to him somehow.

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        • #19
          Bendit wrote: View Post
          "Not sure how you can question his passion for the game when all he wants to do year round is play ball. If he's not here, he's playing for his national team. I don't see anyone question Tim Duncan's cold exterior. Not everyone wears their heart on their sleeve. Consistency is an issue but that's got nothing to do with heart. "
          So he showed he's not a leader on the team. He needs to be led. I already knew this.

          Bendit wrote: View Post
          "Passion" has got nothing necessarily to do with going to work at one's job. Metaphorically, If one has to dig a ditch everyday as a job, it doesnt flow that you do it well or with enthusiasm. Like I said, imo, there is something missing (intensity is how I would describe "passion") on the court with Bargs which btw Duncan has in spades when he plays. And I hope it comes to him somehow.
          When I questioned your "passion" comment I mentioned love for the game, not ability. The man loves the game, you can't drag him off the court. He has passion. He doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve but he always looks focused, concentrated. There are two ends of the spectrum when it comes to showing "intensity", one is in your face like Garnett and the other is quite and methodical like Duncan. Both players are intense competitors, one just doesn't advertise it. You may not like the later but that's your opinion and I'm fine with that. However I want to make it clear that you can't measure intensity based on emotion shown on the court.

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          • #20
            I just dont like him starting i think he can be a great 6th man one of the best in the league, it's less pressure for him and he can come off and make an impact. He can still get 26 to 32 mins for sure just like Manu can in San Antonio, but a starter he is not. If they can keep Bosh or if they dont I would like to see them get a Physical, athletic Center that way u can keep Bargs in the SL by putting him on the 4.

            But right now they dont have a choice but to start him and if he is having a bad night teams can drive at will to the basket and lite up the Raps. Tuesday Kobe and Lakers coming off a 3 game losing skid scares the shit out of me because Raps beat them here now they go to LA if they dont bring it ,might be bad night (81).
            Last edited by rdiaz101; Mon Mar 8, 2010, 07:01 PM.
            "Hello, Hello !.....You Play to Win the GAME!!"

            Herm Edwards

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            • #21
              Bargnani's ceiling is higher than Aldridge. Aldridge is a better player than Bargnani. They are both overpaid, but considering their production, consistency and salary, Aldridge earns a higher percentage of his salary than Bargnani.

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              • #22
                way to flip out and start blaming guys because your team si doing bad as of late. you either blame it on the whole team or maybe even blame it on yourself for abondoning ship because of a little bump in the road.

                when will toronto fans learn to chill, you wonder why no one wants to play here. well, the fasn are nice when your winning they put you under a microscope if your having a flippin bad game or hit a slump.

                sheez, i don't think jack nicholson is flipping that his lakers have lost 3 in a row. take a chill pill.
                If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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                • #23
                  Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                  Bargnani's ceiling is higher than Aldridge. Aldridge is a better player than Bargnani. They are both overpaid, but considering their production, consistency and salary, Aldridge earns a higher percentage of his salary than Bargnani.
                  I am curious, why do you think that Bargnani has a higher ceiling over Aldridge?
                  nbaroundtable

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                  • #24
                    Bendit wrote: View Post
                    Imo, Bargs has all the physical tools and talent to be a v. good player in the NBA. The problem seems to be between the ears.
                    Agreed -- Bargnani is athletic enough to be a dominant player in the NBA. The problem is both mental + skill-based ... mostly mental.
                    nbaroundtable

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                    • #25
                      Dave wrote: View Post
                      I am curious, why do you think that Bargnani has a higher ceiling over Aldridge?
                      More diverse game. Bargnani has shown he can post-up, he's got a face-up give with his drive, better perimeter shooter, ability to play good help and great man-defense. The rebounding will never be there to what we hope, but his game spans a wider range than Aldridge's. IF (and that's a big if) he manages to put it together he'll be a dangerous player and that's what BC is banking on.

                      Aldridge does what he does very well and he's going to be a consistent producer for years to come, but does he have superstar written on him? No. Not saying Bargnani does either with the way he's playing, but if his game starts actually coming close to Dirk, he can be. With every passing month it looks like a reach, but theoretically, he's got a higher ceiling.

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                      • #26
                        LBF wrote: View Post
                        sheez, i don't think jack nicholson is flipping that his lakers have lost 3 in a row. take a chill pill.
                        What are you talking about? Jack is flipping out if Kobe's lace comes undone.

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                        • #27
                          Apollo wrote: View Post
                          If you look at the top five (Bargnani, Aldridge, Morrison(bust), Thomas(bust) and Williams(bust)) I am baffled as to how you can criticize Colangelo for drafting Andrea Bargnani. Its not fair and doesn't make sense. The man drafted a good player and by my count dodged three hollow point bullets.
                          Tyrus Thomas is not a bust.

                          Bargnani is averaging about 17 ppg and 6 rpg in 34 mpg

                          Thomas since the trade to Charlotte is averaging 13 ppg 8 rpg in 26 mpg.

                          On top of that Thomas is averaging 2.6 bpg compared to Bargnani's 1.4 bpg.

                          The situation for Thomas in Chicago just turned bad. In Charlotte with a fresh start he is starting to play up to his potential.

                          If Thomas is a bust so is Bargnani and even more so since Bargnani was taken #1 when the Raptors could have traded down and taken Thomas, Roy, Gay or Aldredge.
                          Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                          Memories some so sweet, indeed

                          Larger Photo of the avatar



                          “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                          Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            What are you talking about? Jack is flipping out if Kobe's lace comes undone.
                            The last time I saw Jack flipping was behind the grill

                            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                            Memories some so sweet, indeed

                            Larger Photo of the avatar



                            “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                              More diverse game. Bargnani has shown he can post-up, he's got a face-up give with his drive, better perimeter shooter, ability to play good help and great man-defense. The rebounding will never be there to what we hope, but his game spans a wider range than Aldridge's. IF (and that's a big if) he manages to put it together he'll be a dangerous player and that's what BC is banking on.

                              Aldridge does what he does very well and he's going to be a consistent producer for years to come, but does he have superstar written on him? No. Not saying Bargnani does either with the way he's playing, but if his game starts actually coming close to Dirk, he can be. With every passing month it looks like a reach, but theoretically, he's got a higher ceiling.
                              Bargnani's defense is non-existent or as they say he plays matador defense.

                              His defense is like a mosquito net with far too many holes in it. Once in a while a mosquito will accidentally collide with one of the pieces of netting still in tack but most of the time they have no problem finding their way through the holes in the net on the way to their victim.
                              Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                              Memories some so sweet, indeed

                              Larger Photo of the avatar



                              “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                              Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                                Tyrus Thomas is not a bust.

                                Bargnani is averaging about 17 ppg and 6 rpg in 34 mpg

                                Thomas since the trade to Charlotte is averaging 13 ppg 8 rpg in 26 mpg.

                                On top of that Thomas is averaging 2.6 bpg compared to Bargnani's 1.4 bpg.
                                Let's forget everything that happened in Thomas' past, let's just judge his career on the last nine games. Everything we need to know we can find out there. At the same time let's judge Bargnani on the entire season to date.

                                If nine games is enough to judge someone's career then Bargnani has been a bust and a stud about two dozen times now.

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