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Casey: JV would be coming out of games if Raps were in Playoff Race

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  • #31
    This thread is stupid when you have both jv and tross talking about how they appreciate more time because they are learning and making mistakes

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    • #32
      I think some of you guys just need to take a chill pill. Currently there are 93 big men in the NBA (I filtered for anyone 6'11" or taller). Only 17 of them averaged more minutes per game than Valanciunas (23.5 mpg) in their rookie season. Here are a few of the notable guys who averaged less minutes in their rookie season:

      Chris Kaman (22.5)
      LaMarcus Aldridge (22.1)
      Joakim Noah (20.7)
      Brendan Haywood (20.4)
      Dirk Nowitzki (20.4)
      Tyson Chandler (19.6)
      Javale McGee (15.2)
      Jamaal Magloire (14.8)
      DeAndre Jordan (14.5)
      Larry Sanders (14.5)
      Roy Hibbert (14.4)
      Tiago Splitter (12.3)
      Omer Asik (12.1)
      Jermaine O'Neal (10.2)
      Andrew Bynum (7.3)
      Marcin Gortat (6.2)
      Samuel Dalembert (5.2)
      your pal,
      ebrian

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      • #33
        Casey is part of the problem with this team and I would be happy with a new coach, but he does kind of have a point with regards to JV.

        JV is pretty awesome and I love having him on the team, however from a production point of view he's 6th worst on the team (as of March 21 and 82games.com). Giving him more minutes is great for his development and I encourage that for a lost season, but if they were in the playoff hunt playing JV could theoretically cost them wins especially if he is a negative in terms of production on the team. The bigger problem is that Gray is actually worse than him, so if JV was not playing who would Casey give the minutes too? If it was Gray then he is a really bad coach, but if Amir played center, and Gay PF then it could actually be more beneficial to the team at least this season, and that tandem might work better against a team like Miami who plays small ball anyway.

        With regards to JV I am really impressed. Looking at his stats he is actually doing better than Noah was in his first year. He's doing better across all the major stats except for his defensive rating which is still pretty close.

        If JV ends up having Noah's career then we have locked in the hardest position to fill on a roster, and that is something we can all celebrate.

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        • #34
          planetmars wrote: View Post
          Casey is part of the problem with this team and I would be happy with a new coach, but he does kind of have a point with regards to JV.

          JV is pretty awesome and I love having him on the team, however from a production point of view he's 6th worst on the team (as of March 21 and 82games.com). Giving him more minutes is great for his development and I encourage that for a lost season, but if they were in the playoff hunt playing JV could theoretically cost them wins especially if he is a negative in terms of production on the team. The bigger problem is that Gray is actually worse than him, so if JV was not playing who would Casey give the minutes too? If it was Gray then he is a really bad coach, but if Amir played center, and Gay PF then it could actually be more beneficial to the team at least this season, and that tandem might work better against a team like Miami who plays small ball anyway.

          With regards to JV I am really impressed. Looking at his stats he is actually doing better than Noah was in his first year. He's doing better across all the major stats except for his defensive rating which is still pretty close.

          If JV ends up having Noah's career then we have locked in the hardest position to fill on a roster, and that is something we can all celebrate.
          And herein lies the core issue I and so many others have. Obviously, Amir takes minutes away from him at C....but Amir also plays PF. There were clearly times when Casey was making bad choices, because really, the options he had were all far worse than getting JV more minutes.

          It's nice to keep making anti-rookie arguments, but at some point you have to step back and evaluate how TALENT is being used.

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          • #35
            You know its not even so much of an issue that he loves to play small ball..Casey plays small ball cause he has to, since Davis left and Bargnani is down and out only JV and Amir are bigs in the rotation. Have to use what you have.

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            • #36
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              What a bunch of horse shit....Man, I also was one to give Casey some benefit of the doubt, but this is atrocious.

              Well, JV is the future of this team. The fact that Casey said such things is despicable. I'll take the Detroit games as examples, because Amir struggles a bit with the Pistons defensively since Monroe and Drummond are both big. JV was arguably the best big man on the court out of all 4 guys in both games, including defensively. So is he saying if we were in a playoff race he would've sat JV in those games? You know, like he sat him out against Dwight Howard despite playing him better than anyone on the team in LA. Or the way he thought a good defensive frontcourt was Bargs and Fields....multiple times...

              Fuck Casey. I've had enough. I'm going back to the idea of a team of monkeys making decisions instead of him...They could throw darts at a clipboard? Roll dice with playcalls on them? I don't care....
              I love when he said, "if we're playing for the playoff's, he'd be coming out" who is he going to put in? Gray? hehehe.

              Im just thinking of it as he's downplaying JV and Ross' capabilites so no team would include them in a package for Bargnani. hehehe.

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              • #37
                blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                What does a coach really do?

                1. Create a defensive scheme
                2. Build an offensive philosophy
                3. Call plays out of game stoppages
                4. Select the best possible players to play depending on scenario.

                Let's unpack these:

                #1 -- I give Casey a solid B on Defense. His above avg knowledge of defense is why I hoped he survived last year.
                #2 -- F. When this team wins the ball swing side to side, but Rap sets consistently run through high usage ball stoppers
                #3 -- C. Could be worse has called solid end of game plays consistently. However, some of his calls after mid game timeouts...
                #4 -- U. Back where I'm from a U was a grade lower than an F. Essentially if you got an F you would get a chance to retake a test. If you got a U you might be asked to transfer to a more appropriate school for your intelligence.

                Casey's obsession with playing vets who have a negative impact on the game, subbing all of his starters in first quarters, going 10-12 players deep like its going out of style when "good" teams go 9 deep at most is deplorable.

                His interview may be smokescreen, something Colangelo suggested. But at the end of the day, if he made some small sensible moves early in the season and the team was closer to a playoff spot his job security wouldn't be so tightly tied to BC's
                While I like your analysis, if you believe this is all coaches do, you're sadly mistaken. I don't doubt Casey works hard but he has very limited ability to adapt. He is stubborn and that may work on the defensive side of the ball but it hurts in almost every other element of the game. While I don't think he currently possesses the tools for being a head coach, to say that there are only 4 pieces that make up head coaches is naive.
                There's math, and everything else is debatable.

                @clericalbeats

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                • #38
                  JV has a tendency to overcommit when playing help defense, and leaving the paint wide open. I would like to think casey wants to limit his minutes as a teaching point, rather than benching a bad player.

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                  • #39
                    akashsingh wrote: View Post
                    JV has a tendency to overcommit when playing help defense, and leaving the paint wide open. I would like to think casey wants to limit his minutes as a teaching point, rather than benching a bad player.
                    This is true. It is JV's biggest defensive issue most nights.

                    It is also sadly true that the team defends the roll very badly. A lot of times nobody rotates to disrupt the rolling big. It's especially bad when this help is supposed to come from one of the wings. I remember being constantly annoyed by it earlier in teh season. IT's not quite as bad anymore, though still not consistent.

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                    • #40
                      ebrian wrote: View Post
                      For what it's worth, the after game NBA TV Canada interviewed DeMar DeRozan and one of the questions they asked him was what he thought of JV's development. DeRozan chuckled and said JV was still learning and makes a ton of mistakes on the defensive end, but that at least he's giving it 120% effort every night.
                      So weird that Casey and DeMar, both professionals in the NBA seem to think JV makes a lot of mistakes but most everone here beleive that JV is currently the best player to have on the floor at all times. What they heck could they know that we don't?

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                      • #41
                        Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                        So weird that Casey and DeMar, both professionals in the NBA seem to think JV makes a lot of mistakes but most everone here beleive that JV is currently the best player to have on the floor at all times. What they heck could they know that we don't?
                        I was surprised to hear that from DeRozan (who himself still makes a ton of defensive mistakes).

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                        • #42
                          Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          I was surprised to hear that from DeRozan (who himself still makes a ton of defensive mistakes).
                          And here we have the main problem (at least 'my' main problem) with Casey's statements. It's not like we are a winning team when not playing the rookies.

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                          • #43
                            Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            I was surprised to hear that from DeRozan (who himself still makes a ton of defensive mistakes).
                            Yeah, if DeMar is laughing about how many mistakes JV is making then clearly we fans with our rosey coloured glasses might as well be watching a brick wall instead of the game on tv 'cause we are obviously missing something. Nah, I maintain it's the pro's that are crazy and we're all right on the money.

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                            • #44
                              Soft Euro wrote: View Post
                              And here we have the main problem (at least 'my' main problem) with Casey's statements. It's not like we are a winning team when not playing the rookies.
                              Exactly. His mistakes couldn't have been much worse than anyone elses earlier this season if they lost all the time with awful team defense anyway, regardless of who was playing

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                              • #45
                                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                My concern is that I assume those times he wouldn't normally be playing JV is in the 4th quarter of a tight game, similar to his usage during most of the season. I understand the instinct to shy away from throwing rookies to the fire, so to speak, but it makes absolutely no sense to me when the rookie in question has played a game where he's the best player on the court. Also, how is a young player going to gain experience playing in those types of situations, if he's never given the chance? I don't get what stopped DC from playing JV in those moments, keeping him on a short leash - he just never game him a chance to begin with.

                                As for more general usage, I am fully on board with rookies getting a quick hook anytime in a game when they make a mistake - ie: one from lack of effort, or laziness running a play, etc... However, I don't understand the concept of keeping the rookie on the bench for the remainder of the game, which is exactly what DC did with both JV & Ross many times earlier in the year. I think it makes more sense to yank the player, talk to them on the bench and make them understand what they did wrong, while reviewing the change that needs to be made to avoid making the same mistake. Then the player needs to get back into the same game, against the same opponents, running the same gameplan, to prove that they are able to learn from their mistakes and take the benching/coaching to heart. That's what I found to be lacking from DC all season - not giving his rookies a chance to prove themselves after being called out for an initial mistake.
                                Once again I am going to encourage you to actually watch the video, and if you have, pay more attention to the context. This was right after our loss to Detroit, where their big men absolutely abused JV on defense. He said if we were in the playoff hunt, he would have probably pulled JV out when he was making so many defensive mistakes against Detroit's big men. That's all, and it makes perfect sense. Since we're not in the playoff hunt, he let JV play through the mistakes and we lost the game. Not necessarily because of JV, but his poor defense definitely contributed to the loss. I'm thankful we're out of the playoff race so wins don't matter as much, and now we can let JV give up easy buckets without having to sit him.

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