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Did The Bobcats Offer To T.Thomas Raise Amir's Asking Price?

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  • #16
    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Thomas and Johnson have both been in the NBA 5 years.

    Career numbers per 36 minutes
    -------------------------------------
    Thomas on left and Johnson on Right

    Points---------------14.2---------11.1
    Rebounds------------9.2----------9.9

    FG%----------------- 45%----------60%
    Offensive Rating---100----------121
    Defensive Rating---100----------105
    Net Rating-------------0------------16
    Win Share/48------.109---------.159

    If Thomas has a higher upside than Johnson he sure hasn't shown it in his first five years in the league. What is he waiting for?

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...johnsam01.html
    Well, yeah, most of the top picks from that draft aside from Boy and *maybe* Aldridge have been major disappointments for each team (at least compared to how top picks from other drafts have turned out).

    Thomas was drafted based totally on upside. I think people expected him to be the next Ben Wallace. Whether or not he actually will achieve that upside, who knows. You could also look at it as Amir Johnson at almost his best (last year was probably the high point of his career, though I might be wrong here, I didn't follow him with the Pistons) versus Thomas at still the lowest part of his potential, since he hasn't really done much since joining the league. Given that I actually know what Amir can give us, I'd of course pick him over Thomas, or whoever is cheaper.

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    • #17
      Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
      Lets see if i can help you.
      Lets create a thread in Everything Raptors section of the forum.

      1) Click on the Everything Raptors on the top of this page :

      Raptors Republic Forums > Raptors Republic Forums > Everything Raptors >

      2) On the left hand side of the screen, you will see a button called New Thread, it is grey, click on that.

      3) you will basically will be prompt to a screen that allows you to cerate a thread.

      Lets see if that works for you
      Thanks buddy...appreciate it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Buddahfan wrote: View Post
        Expertly explained but let me add one thing.

        It is important to match the topic of your thread with the specific forum that you are creating it in. For example if you want to create a thread about something having to do with the Raptors then start that thread under "Everything Raptors" You do this by making sure that you are in the group of threads entitled "Everything Raptors"

        If you want to create a thread about another NBA team or about the NBA in general, for example you want to create a thread about the officiating, then you need to be in the group of threads entitled "Let's NBA". You do this by first clicking on "Raptors Republic Forums" and then clicking on "Lets NBA" Then create your thread just as you would if you were in "Everything Raptors"
        thanks

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        • #19
          BomKeyzi wrote: View Post
          If Bosh walks Amir becomes much more valuable. A Bosh sign n trade would have to bring back a far better bigman than Amir to justify only offering a $800,000 raise to a promising young bigman that knows he's highly regarded and needed by the team. Such a low ball offer could seriously backfire on the Raptors. I agree not to overpay, but this could easily turn into a bidding war with another team.
          It will be interesting to see what happens.

          I agree that Johnson and Duffy, his agent, might wait until Bosh makes his move before they decide to commit. I think that he will get a number of other offers.

          BC does want him back. I don't see Johnson as the type to play hardball but his agent is very successful. According to the last ranking of NBA agents Duffy was ranked #4 in terms of Clients Salaries. So clearly he has a track record of getting good money for his clients.

          Also, keep in mind that he managed to get $11 million for Amir three years ago when Amir was still playing in the D-League.

          It will be interesting.
          Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

          Memories some so sweet, indeed

          Larger Photo of the avatar



          “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
          Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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          • #20
            Amir will be signed a 3 year deal worth $15 million dollars that is the magic number.

            I hope he isn't looking or asking for more,

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            • #21
              Amir Johnson's value isn't determined by what Tyrus Thomas makes, it's determined by how much the highest bidder is willing to pay.

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              • #22
                Hotshot wrote: View Post
                Amir will be signed a 3 year deal worth $15 million dollars that is the magic number.

                I hope he isn't looking or asking for more,
                So you still think that T. Thomas is worth about 20% more a year than Johnson even though Johnson has shown over his five years in the league that he is better than Thomas.

                People think Thomas is better because he has played a lot more minutes prior to last season and chucks up tons of shots. Don't forget Thomas also has a long history in his short career of being a bit of a trouble maker whereas to my knowledge the only problem that Johnson has ever created was when his Bentley broke down on the road on the way to the airport and he missed the team plane. He did however catch a commercial flight and arrive at the arena in time for the game.
                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                Larger Photo of the avatar



                “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                Comment


                • #23
                  BomKeyzi wrote: View Post
                  If Bosh walks Amir becomes much more valuable. A Bosh sign n trade would have to bring back a far better bigman than Amir to justify only offering a $800,000 raise to a promising young bigman that knows he's highly regarded and needed by the team. Such a low ball offer could seriously backfire on the Raptors. I agree not to overpay, but this could easily turn into a bidding war with another team.
                  Yes and no. A bad GM would probably let need influence how much Amir deserves. A good GM would already know what he thinks of Amir, what his role will be and what the value of his talent is, and that's all that matters. So yes, if Bosh leaves and BC thinks Amir can play 35 a game, then BC obviously might be willing to pay more. But if Amir will play about the same minutes whether or not Bosh leaves (this is more likely the case if you consider Amir's foul rate), then it shouldn't matter.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Apollo wrote: View Post
                    Amir Johnson's value isn't determined by what Tyrus Thomas makes, it's determined by how much the highest bidder is willing to pay.
                    What the highest bidder is willing to pay will be determined by among other things what T. Thomas was offered because Thomas and Johnson have similar games and similar numbers last season except in the advanced stats where Johnson was clearly superior.

                    I think it is a bit naive to think that Duffy, Johnson's agent, and one of the best agents in the NBA, won't use every stat and other piece of information available to get a good deal for Johnson just like he does for his other two dozen plus NBA clients. If Duffy managed to get $3.7 million a year for Johnson for three years when Johnson was still playing in the D-League It is more than reasonable to assume that he will aim to get more than what Thomas is getting.

                    I would not bet against Duffy. When you are ranked #4 in NBA clients total salaries you must be doing something right for your clients, like getting them the most money possible even it means that teams over pay for his clients.
                    Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat Jun 26, 2010, 12:32 AM.
                    Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                    Memories some so sweet, indeed

                    Larger Photo of the avatar



                    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                      So you still think that T. Thomas is worth about 20% more a year than Johnson even though Johnson has shown over his five years in the league that he is better than Thomas.

                      People think Thomas is better because he has played a lot more minutes prior to last season and chucks up tons of shots. Don't forget Thomas also has a long history in his short career of being a bit of a trouble maker whereas to my knowledge the only problem that Johnson has ever created was when his Bentley broke down on the road on the way to the airport and he missed the team plane. He did however catch a commercial flight and arrive at the arena in time for the game.
                      Stop trying to raise Amir's asking price PLEASE! LOL

                      I think people WILL be willing to pay Tyrus Thomas more than Amir. Tyrus Thomas has the potential of having a more well-rounded game than Amir (IMO), and people pay for potential all the time (just look at Bargnani).

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                      • #26
                        Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                        What the highest bidder is willing to pay will be determined by among other things what T. Thomas was offered because Thomas and Johnson have similar games and similar numbers last season except in the advanced stats where Johnson was clearly superior.
                        Don't forget it's just a qualifying offer for one year. Charlotte might be willing to pay $6.2 mil for one year -- that's not that much to risk -- but who knows if they'd be willing to pay $21 mil over 3 years (assuming raises). They're just doing the smart thing to retain their right to match. There may not be much of a market for either of these players outside their respective teams (last FA ranking I checked, Amir was around #50, so people outside of Toronto might not have as high a view of him).

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                        • #27
                          Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                          If Duffy managed to get $3.7 million a year for Johnson for three years when Johnson was still playing in the D-League It is more than reasonable to assume that he will aim to get more than what Thomas is getting.
                          He has a few things working against him this time:

                          1) Amir is far down the list of desired FAs. All eyes are on LBJ/Wade/Bosh this summer. Had Amir had performed the way he did last year and been a free agent a few years back, he may have gotten his 6-7 mil a year deal.

                          2) All teams are looking towards the new CBA. If someone does offer 7 mil a year for AJ, he would have to be the laughingstock of GMs. The top FAs will get theirs, the next tier (Joe Johnson, Boozer, Amare) might be overpaid by a team that struck out (e.g. New York), but I really don't think teams will go crazy over role players like Amir. And if they do, then good for them!

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                          • #28
                            Quixotic wrote: View Post
                            Stop trying to raise Amir's asking price PLEASE! LOL

                            I think people WILL be willing to pay Tyrus Thomas more than Amir. Tyrus Thomas has the potential of having a more well-rounded game than Amir (IMO), and people pay for potential all the time (just look at Bargnani).
                            That is only your opinion. I don't agree with that at all.

                            Thomas can't shoot and will never be able to shoot period.

                            He does four things that get him ESPN coverage.

                            1. He can dunk very well
                            2. He chucks up tons of shots
                            3. He causes problems with management
                            4. He blocks shots

                            Johnson

                            1. Also dunks very well
                            2. Has a far superior inside game
                            3. Rolls to basket and finishes better
                            4. Sets far better screens on offense
                            5. Does not cause problems with management
                            6. Plays better team defense.

                            What Johnson has not been able to do is keep his foul problem under control.

                            How much he will lose financially by that remains to be seen. If Duffy can convince at least one GM that Johnson is solving that problem, which he did show improvement last season, the I think Johnson will get over $6 million a year.

                            In his five starts last season he did average over 32mpg so he did show for at least those five starts that he can stay on the court when he is asked to start.
                            Last edited by Buddahfan; Sat Jun 26, 2010, 12:43 AM.
                            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                            Memories some so sweet, indeed

                            Larger Photo of the avatar



                            “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Quixotic wrote: View Post
                              Don't forget it's just a qualifying offer for one year. Charlotte might be willing to pay $6.2 mil for one year -- that's not that much to risk -- but who knows if they'd be willing to pay $21 mil over 3 years (assuming raises). They're just doing the smart thing to retain their right to match. There may not be much of a market for either of these players outside their respective teams (last FA ranking I checked, Amir was around #50, so people outside of Toronto might not have as high a view of him).
                              You may have a point about Thomas offer being only for one year. However, it will be interesting to see if any teams match or exceed that offer.

                              As far as that ranking goes, it is total BS and my guess, you didn't provide a link, is not based on any numbers but just one person's opinion. Anyone can create a subjective list. That won't mean squat when it comes to contract negotiations.

                              If you go to basketballvalue.com
                              --------------------------------------------
                              1. Johnson was ranked in the top 30 of all players In the NBA last season in "1 year unadjusted rating".
                              2. He was also #16 among all players in the NBA in two year +/-.
                              3. He also ranked #1 in the NBA in "1 year unadjusted defensive rating" (Comment: In 2009-10 Bargnani ranked second to last in the league in this stat)

                              So please don't throw around some subjective ratings number especially when you have no link to back it up.


                              http://basketballvalue.com/topplayer...sortorder=DESC
                              Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                              Memories some so sweet, indeed

                              Larger Photo of the avatar



                              “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                              Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                                That is only your opinion. I don't agree with that at all.

                                [... comparison ...]
                                Of course it's just my opinion. Most things stated on this forum are simply that, opinions.

                                Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                                What Johnson has not been able to do is keep his foul problem under control.
                                [...]
                                In his five starts last season he did average over 32mpg so he did show for at least those five starts that he can stay on the court when he is asked to start.
                                This is such an important part of the equation. 5 games is simply that. Tyrus has shown he can stay on the floor for longer over complete seasons. Each of the last 3 years, Tyrus has played considerably more minutes per game. Here's some interesting stats on the defensive end:

                                (stats are per 40 minutes and adjusted for pace; draftexpress.com)
                                ------------------dreb treb stls blks PFs
                                Thomas-Bulls: 8.2 10.6 2.3 2.8 3.7
                                Thomas-Cats: 8.5 11.4 1.7 2.8 4.9
                                Johnson-Raps: 6.5 10.7 1.2 1.8 6.9

                                These numbers show Thomas to not only be a better shot-blocker and better defensive rebounder, but a pretty good ball-hawk as well. And he has done this while fouling less and staying on the floor longer.

                                Johnson is a better offensive rebounder, but did you know that of all players averaging at least 14 minutes a game (20 game minimum), Amir had the highest fouls/min rate? He improved a little last year, but not by much. If he were to play starter minutes, either he suddenly no longer commits any unnecessary fouls or he has to play with less defensive intensity. You simply can't take his performance last year, extend it over almost twice the minutes and expect him to perform the same way the entire game the entire season, especially not with those fouls (or POB would be a 15.5 and 9 player, with 3.3 blocks and 1.6 steals every 40 minutes).

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