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  • planetmars wrote: View Post
    I still think Washington would make a good partner. Washington is contending (or trying to contend), Gay is from Baltimore and they have picks/prospects plus large expiring contracts like Okafor or Ariza
    The Raptors are trying to contend too.
    Mamba Mentality

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    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      OKC just became a tax team. They pay luxury tax and miss out on revenue sharing. Don't see it being feasible.
      The trade I posted only increases OKC's payroll by < 300K

      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Also in taking back Perkins you are taking up $9.5M in cap space for the next (*edit* just one) summer. I would not expect the Raptors to be players in free agency but the cap space would be great for dealing with teams worried about the luxury tax (Cleveland with Memphis) or looking to dump players to make their own runs (Portland with Houston).
      We would still have cap space to work with though to make those kind of moves. I also think that the benefit of getting an additional 1st round pick outweighs having that extra cap space... which at best would probably be used for the same purpose except not for the 2014 draft making it worse imo (taking a bad contract along with a 1st).

      Comment


      • Xixak wrote: View Post
        The trade I posted only increases OKC's payroll by < 300K



        We would still have cap space to work with though to make those kind of moves. I also think that the benefit of getting an additional 1st round pick outweighs having that extra cap space... which at best would probably be used for the same purpose except not for the 2014 draft making it worse imo (taking a bad contract along with a 1st).

        Sorry, I missed Thabeet. You are right.

        As for trade, I'd rather stick with just Charlotte.

        As for Gordon, I think they are expecting big things from Lamb.

        Comment


        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
          Sorry, I missed Thabeet. You are right.

          As for trade, I'd rather stick with just Charlotte.

          As for Gordon, I think they are expecting big things from Lamb.
          Don't have any problem with the Charlotte deal either tbh, just wouldn't be opposed to snagging another pick from OKC if possible. Could be used in a package deal to move up on draft night if need be.

          Comment


          • Xixak wrote: View Post
            Don't have any problem with the Charlotte deal either tbh, just wouldn't be opposed to snagging another pick from OKC if possible. Could be used in a package deal to move up on draft night if need be.
            If this draft is as loaded at the top (btw, not supposed to be so strong after the top 6 or so) as predicted, nobody that has a top 5 pick is going to take a 16th and a 29th for it.

            On a side note, I read that Jabari Parker is already talking about staying in college for a 2nd year. By the time the draft rolls around, it could look quite different that the mocks people are toying around with now.

            Comment


            • p00ka wrote: View Post
              If this draft is as loaded at the top (btw, not supposed to be so strong after the top 6 or so) as predicted, nobody that has a top 5 pick is going to take a 16th and a 29th for it.

              On a side note, I read that Jabari Parker is already talking about staying in college for a 2nd year. By the time the draft rolls around, it could look quite different that the mocks people are toying around with now.
              I didn't say move up to the top 5..... I said "move up". Say we have 5th, 15th and 29th, and we think a team at 14 is gonna take our guy at 15. We could deal 15+29 to move up to 13 and get our guy.

              And I agree with your second point, it is part of the problem with tanking. It's unpredictable, unreliable and heavily based on chance.

              Comment


              • I think this would be a sign of tanking....

                Important things to remember about each team:

                Toronto: they are blowing it up in this scenario. Don't really want to talk about if they are or not - that has been beat to death. Here we are assuming they are blowing it up.

                Charlotte: laughingstock of league for few years. Desperate to get out of the cellar. I read somewhere recently a writer talking about Charlotte being a great place and as soon as they start winning they will be an attractive place for NBA players. Who knows. Bottom line is I think the treadmill and a couple of playoff games revenue looks appealing to MJ, Cho, and Co. after striking out on the lottery the last few seasons (by that I mean decent but not great players).

                Houston: I don't buy the "want to keep Lin and Asik" comments. Those two guys only count as $16.7M cap hit next year but their actual salary combined will be about $30-32M. Also, Lin played just 4 games and 32, 20, 18, and 13 games while missing 2 games (can't remember how bad the chest bruise was) and he was dog poop. Asik has made it clear he is not happy as a reserve. After getting off the bench from Chicago to now going back, he is not happy. More to come from Houston in the "Why" section.



                The trade:


                http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=n8cezja

                *Richardson released to create roster space for +1 player coming back to TO
                **Augustine or Buycks sent to Charlotte (December 15th)


                Toronto: Lin, Sessions, Biyombo, Haywood, Jones/Motiejunas, Adrien, Houston 2015/2017 pick, from Charlotte Pistons top8 protected and Portland top 12 protected.

                Houston: Gordon, Novak, Gray, Kemba

                Charlotte: Gay, Asik, Lowry, $3M from Toronto, $3M from Houston


                Why?

                Houston: with a core already set of Harden/Howard/Parsons they now add a future PG in Kemba. Novak was made to play with Howard. Gordon strengthens weak bench. Gray is replacement back up C.

                Key issue here is Parsons and Kemba stay on rookie deal for one more year. This deal gives them about (assumption cap of $60M) $12-13M in cap space. They can hit free agency one last time before being limited to exceptions.

                As mentioned above Houston also avoids paying $30+M to Asik and Lin despite just having a $16.7M cap hit.


                Charlotte:

                Lowry/Buycks-Augustine/Pargo
                Henderson/Taylor
                Gay/MKG
                Jefferson/McBob
                Asik/Zeller

                I think that is an eastern conference playoff team - although they need more shooting. Never going to go deep but it is a step up from where they are now AND they kept #2 pick in 2012 and #4 in 2013.


                Toronto: obviously they are tanking here. They just got 4 first round draft picks to give them possibly 3 in 2014, 2 in 2015, 2 in 2016, and 2 in 2017.

                Lin gives them PG for next year.
                Sessions is cap filler and expiring.
                Biyombo has potential as long term back up C.
                Haywood is cost of doing business. Likely waived/bought out. Option for 2015/16 obviously not picked up.
                Jones/Motiejunas depends on which Houston would like. Personally I see potential in both - preference to Jones.
                Adrien is cap filler.

                TL has talked about the deep pockets of MLSE/Bell/Rogers. Here is chance to put money where mouth is. Lin only counts as $8.375M on books but will be paid over $15M. Great way to get a couple of draft picks in process.

                Raptors would have about $17M in cap space in summer of 2014.
                For 2015-16 they would have JV, Ross, DD, Jones-Motiejunas, 2014 pick, 2014 pick, 2015 pick, 2015 pick and a shit load of cap space (about $30M in committed salaries). Yes, free agency is now an option in the summer of 2015 right before JV's extension.




                This is/was a waste of time on my part but that would be a good sign of tanking.... lol

                Comment


                • Matt52's trade doesn't work because we can't trade Steve Novak in conjunction with other players presently.

                  A revision:

                  TORONTO GETS: Jeremy Lin, Bismack Biyombo, Ramon Sessions, Jeff Adrien, Houston's 2015/17, the Detroit/Portland protected picks from Charlotte
                  HOUSTON GETS: Kemba Walker, Terrence Ross, Ben Gordon, Brendan Haywood, draft rights to Tomislav Zubcic
                  CHARLOTTE GETS: Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry, Omer Asik, Terrence Jones, money from Houston and/or Toronto

                  That's a little more balanced in favour of Houston; they'd rather get young Terrence Ross than Steve Novak, because Houston has healthy perimeter shooting already and Ross has a lot more potential upside for them than Novak does.

                  Comment


                  • The Novak restriction will be gone in a month, btw. But the Ross idea makes sense too.

                    I like both of these trades. They look fair and reasonable.

                    Btw, Houston is in position to be a major free agency force in 2015, which should be a very impressive free agency. Parsons' cap hit is miniscule, so they could target Love/Aldridge/Rondo/Millsap etc that summer.
                    So while this deal opens up their cap space for 2014, I don't know if they wouldn't just prefer to wait till 2015. Morey's plan might be to retain their flexibility for 2015 while at the same time collect assets / picks and try to acquire the third star via trade.
                    That said, I do agree that keeping Asik makes no sense, if a good deal is available.
                    Last edited by BobLoblaw; Sat Aug 10, 2013, 02:14 AM.

                    Comment


                    • magoon wrote: View Post
                      Matt52's trade doesn't work because we can't trade Steve Novak in conjunction with other players presently.

                      A revision:

                      TORONTO GETS: Jeremy Lin, Bismack Biyombo, Ramon Sessions, Jeff Adrien, Houston's 2015/17, the Detroit/Portland protected picks from Charlotte
                      HOUSTON GETS: Kemba Walker, Terrence Ross, Ben Gordon, Brendan Haywood, draft rights to Tomislav Zubcic
                      CHARLOTTE GETS: Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry, Omer Asik, Terrence Jones, money from Houston and/or Toronto

                      That's a little more balanced in favour of Houston; they'd rather get young Terrence Ross than Steve Novak, because Houston has healthy perimeter shooting already and Ross has a lot more potential upside for them than Novak does.
                      And buycks/Augustine can't be traes until December 15 from my original trade.

                      I put that in post so made the assumption Novak being unable to be traded until September 10th would be a non issue.

                      Your trade leaves Charlotte with no backup PG besides Pargo and Charlotte is not sending out enough money to make trade work under CBA.

                      Also Houston in in win now mode. Not sure they want a project in Ross especially in Harden's position. Novak is Mr. Spacing for Harden and Howard. Off the bench right now they have Garcia, Williams, and Casspi none of which are a certainty.
                      Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Aug 10, 2013, 05:33 AM.

                      Comment


                      • magoon wrote: View Post
                        Matt52's trade doesn't work because we can't trade Steve Novak in conjunction with other players presently.

                        A revision:

                        TORONTO GETS: Jeremy Lin, Bismack Biyombo, Ramon Sessions, Jeff Adrien, Houston's 2015/17, the Detroit/Portland protected picks from Charlotte
                        HOUSTON GETS: Kemba Walker, Terrence Ross, Ben Gordon, Brendan Haywood, draft rights to Tomislav Zubcic
                        CHARLOTTE GETS: Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry, Omer Asik, Terrence Jones, money from Houston and/or Toronto

                        That's a little more balanced in favour of Houston; they'd rather get young Terrence Ross than Steve Novak, because Houston has healthy perimeter shooting already and Ross has a lot more potential upside for them than Novak does.
                        This trade is slanted way in favour of Charlotte IMO. Which is always nice to see in a Raptors forum Mainly I think Asik is being undervalued. Morey knows that he can get a decent haul for him, which is why he's pretending he wants to keep him long term.
                        "Stop eating your sushi."
                        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                        - Jack Armstrong

                        Comment


                        • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                          This trade is slanted way in favour of Charlotte IMO. Which is always nice to see in a Raptors forum Mainly I think Asik is being undervalued. Morey knows that he can get a decent haul for him, which is why he's pretending he wants to keep him long term.
                          I like Asik a lot.

                          The thing I wonder is does any GM think Asik is worth over $15M? Because that is what they'll be paying him. Combine that same question to Jeremy Lin and suddenly the question of basketball value versus financial value becomes an interesting topic of conversation.

                          Comment


                          • http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=my29cga

                            Lol kinda came up with this for fun, not sure how realistic it is.

                            Celtics Get:
                            Charlie Villanueva
                            Landry Fields
                            Kyle Lowry
                            Terrence Ross
                            Raptors 2015 1st
                            Nuggets/Knicks 2016 1st

                            Pistons Get:
                            Rudy Gay
                            Brandon Bass
                            MarShon Brooks

                            Raptors Get:
                            Rajon Rondo
                            Rodney Stuckey
                            Courtney Lee
                            Greg Monroe


                            For Boston this sets them up perfectly to tank, while also freeing up the last year of Lee's contract in exchange for Fields'. They get three prospects as well with Ross and the 2 1st round picks. And Lowry could potentially be flipped again for a late 1st round pick from a team like the Lakers or maybe Houston if their two point guards don't work out.

                            For Detroit, this fixes the problem of having a frontcourt with 3 guys that can't shoot consistently from more than 10 feet. They get a near-star type player in Rudy Gay at the small forward position, without losing bigman depth since they're also acquiring Brandon Bass from Detroit. MarShon Brooks gives them another scorer off the bench with the loss of Stuckey.

                            For us, this is kind of a two-pronged move as it allows us to tank despite having several good players on the team already. Say Rondo is legitimately hurt. We shut him down for as long as possible and start one of Stuckey/Buycks/Augustin at the point for the remainder of the season. Couple that with Novak or Daye at the 2, and even with the addition of Monroe the team probably isn't going to win very many games. This would likely put us in position to have a high selection in the draft while still having 4 very talented players moving forwards (Rondo, DD, Monroe, Valanciunas). In the offseason, best-case scenario we get Andrew Wiggins and then match whatever offer is thrown out there for Greg Monroe. Leaving us with:

                            Rondo/Augustin
                            DeRozan/Lee
                            Wiggins/Novak
                            Monroe/Amir
                            Valanciunas/(Backup center)

                            You could also take advantage of the fact that Rondo was in and out of the lineup the previous season and try to use that as leverage to ink him to a below-market-value extension at the start of the 14-15 season.

                            Comment


                            • "not sure how realistic it is"

                              I like your passion, and a lot of your views/posts, but because I believe anything is "possible", I'll give you 1%. Not even going to evaluate the logic of these moves, but 3 teams, 11 players, 2 draft picks is out there in the realm of possibilities.

                              Comment


                              • p00ka wrote: View Post
                                "not sure how realistic it is"

                                I like your passion, and a lot of your views/posts, but because I believe anything is "possible", I'll give you 1%. Not even going to evaluate the logic of these moves, but 3 teams, 11 players, 2 draft picks is out there in the realm of possibilities.
                                Yeah obviously. It's a fair trade but the likelihood of it happening is about 0 because there are too many moving parts.

                                Kinda just did it for fun to see if I could get Rondo and monroe on the team at the same time.

                                Comment

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