Trife76 wrote:
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Everything Bargnani
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DunkinDerozan wrote: View PostThis is not a really fair statement right now!
However, I beleive he will be a top five centre by year end. Remeber most centres who are better than him have had more responsbilities for a longer period of time. I think with time he will develope into a leader and top 5 centre. Name any centres in the NBA who have a bigger upside than Bargnani over the next 10 years. I cant really think of any.
Hes played 5 years already my dude ? So you mean that his upside is for 15 years until you can evaluate him ?
in 10 years he wont be playing in the NBA anymore....but according to you his upside which will outlasts most HOFers careers will peak sometime in the next 10 years....noted.
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Trife76 wrote: View PostIt means you should be watching water polo and not basketball...
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As someone said you cant take most of the raps media serious or broadcasters cuz they are team employees and have to deal with players on a reg basis so they cant really be impartial because of that conflict.....
This assertion is nothing more than this homer broadcaster trying to balance out the opinion sway....he does that alot...
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Challenge... name a current center with more offensive talent than Andrea Bargnani.
Not so easy is it?
3 centers in the past 10 years have averaged 20+ points in at least one season: Shaquille O'Neal, Yao Ming, and Dwight Howard. (6 if you also include Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, and Tim Duncan, who have played both PF and C at times.)
AB has a great shot at 20+ this year, and I don't think that's debatable. Why then are we so quick to shoot down the notion that he may in fact be a top 10 center, and a potential all-star at that? Is it just because of his rebounding statistics? If he had 20 and 9 instead of 20 and 5, would it make that much of a difference? (I'm actually really curious about this.)
Seems like a lot of people look straight past the things that he can do and fixate on the things he can't. I would argue that, among centers, Andrea is the best 3-point shooter and shot creator in the league, and probably top 5 in almost every other offensive category.
Yes, his rebounding stinks, and his defence isn't spectacular, but so be it. Every player has their weaknesses. It just so happens that most of the time it's the offensive side of the game that 7-footers have trouble with. Maybe that's why there's always so much hoopla around Andrea... he's different.
Just because he doesn't grab 8 rebounds a game and actually makes his free throws, it doesn't automatically make him a subpar center.
In my opinion, there are only 4-5 centers that are clearly better overall players:
Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol (inteirm C), Joakim Noah, Al Horford, and maybe Roy Hibbert.
In the same class as Bargnani:
Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Chris Kaman, Brook Lopez, Andrew Bogut.
That puts him as high as 5th or as low as 11th, placing him relatively safely inside my Top 10.
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jrdyck wrote: View PostChallenge... name a current center with more offensive talent than Andrea Bargnani.
Not so easy is it?
3 centers in the past 10 years have averaged 20+ points in at least one season: Shaquille O'Neal, Yao Ming, and Dwight Howard. (6 if you also include Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, and Tim Duncan, who have played both PF and C at times.)
AB has a great shot at 20+ this year, and I don't think that's debatable. Why then are we so quick to shoot down the notion that he may in fact be a top 10 center, and a potential all-star at that? Is it just because of his rebounding statistics? If he had 20 and 9 instead of 20 and 5, would it make that much of a difference? (I'm actually really curious about this.)
Seems like a lot of people look straight past the things that he can do and fixate on the things he can't. I would argue that, among centers, Andrea is the best 3-point shooter and shot creator in the league, and probably top 5 in almost every other offensive category.
Yes, his rebounding stinks, and his defence isn't spectacular, but so be it. Every player has their weaknesses. It just so happens that most of the time it's the offensive side of the game that 7-footers have trouble with. Maybe that's why there's always so much hoopla around Andrea... he's different.
Just because he doesn't grab 8 rebounds a game and actually makes his free throws, it doesn't automatically make him a subpar center.
In my opinion, there are only 4-5 centers that are clearly better overall players:
Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol (inteirm C), Joakim Noah, Al Horford, and maybe Roy Hibbert.
In the same class as Bargnani:
Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Chris Kaman, Brook Lopez, Andrew Bogut.
That puts him as high as 5th or as low as 11th, placing him relatively safely inside my Top 10.
Bynum (when healthy), Bogut and Lopez are light years ahead of Bargnani. They can get you 20 points on any given night, grab 10 boards, but also make a difference on the defensive end.
Kaman averaged more ppg last year than Bargnani (he's recovering from injury, this year) AND grabbed 9.3 rebounds per game. He's not a good defender, but he's also not a liability on that end like Bargnani is.
Al Jefferson is probably one of the best low post players in the game, and before his injury, averaged 23 ppg and 11 rpg. Bargnani will never, ever average that. He's a horrible defender, but at least he rebounds the basketball.
Again, it depends what you value. If you overvalue offense, and undervalue defense and rebounding, you might overvalue Bargnani. But defense and rebounding are just as important as offense, and Bargnani is horrible at both of those. Being great at one thing and being absolutely horrible in two other very important aspects of winning doesn't put you in the top ten list. It should put you on the bench.
And, quick, name one center who has ever been considered a top player at the position who has rebounded at a rate as low as Bargnani.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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Tim W. wrote: View PostThey all talked about his offense. No one has compained about his offense. In order to be a top ten center you can't be a liability on either end of the court. Bargnani is.
also, those same geniuses saying that PF's like Gasol or Duncan or Bosh or Amare shouldn't be listed are really proving their ignorance since Bargs is "naturally" a PF forced into the C position, but really his game is closer to that of a volume-shooting SG/SF. You can all bla bla bla about points, but at the end of the day you're just proving how 1-dimensional he is. Keep it up the good work.Last edited by nubreed000; Fri Nov 19, 2010, 01:06 PM.
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Tim W. wrote: View PostBeing great at one thing and being absolutely horrible in two other very important aspects of winning doesn't put you in the top ten list.
Tim W. wrote: View PostAnd, quick, name one center who has ever been considered a top player at the position who has rebounded at a rate as low as Bargnani.
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jrdyck wrote: View PostYes, it does. Unless you believe that Steve Nash, Gilbert Arenas, Peja Stojakovic, and Dirk Nowitzki have never been top 10 in their respective positions.
Gilbert Arenas is not a good defender, but he's not bad at anything else.
And what is Dirk bad at? His defense is actually not bad. He's not going to make any All-Defensive teams, but he's not a liability on that end. And his 8.5 career rebounding numbers, as well as the fact that he's averaged as many as 9.9 rpg, attests the fact that he's a pretty good rebounder.
As for Peja, he's a fair rebounder for his position and his defense has only been bad since he went to New Orleans and hurt himself. And he's never been a top ten player at his position since then. In Sacramento, his defense was okay, although he certainly never had the quickness to stay with quick players.
None of those players you mentioned are below average in more than one area. Bargnani is.
Like it or not, big man have more responsibility than other players, just as PGs have more responsibility. Big men NEED to rebound the ball. Guards don't.
jrdyck wrote: View PostRik Smits. (you asked)
And he only made 1 All-Star game.
Thanks for bringing him up.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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