Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

One reason we get no respect.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    minks77 wrote: View Post
    what what is right. We get no respect because we are and historically have been a bad team. This has been a team rebuilding since 2001.

    In that time the fans paying the way have been treated to:

    3 GMs
    5 head coaches
    2 first round playoff exits
    0 superstars/elite level players
    478 losses

    and more forgotton 10 dayers then you can shake a stick at
    Exactly! We have to have some semblance of an identity handed down by head office before the league will start to notice this team. Other wise it looks like a continuation of the clusterf^&k from the past decade. All those calling for Colangelos head don't seem to realize how harmful this high turnover rate is to this franchise.
    Welp, that sucked.

    Comment


    • #17
      I think we would be alot better of a team if we trade Bargs for a real SF ... I'd be happy to watch:
      PG: Jerryd Bayless
      SG: DeMar DeRozan
      SF: Trade for Bargs
      PF: Ed Davis or Amir Johnson
      C: Jonas Valanciunas

      I could get behind that team just to see if we could cause any damage ... all young and want to make a mark.

      Comment


      • #18
        c_bcm wrote: View Post
        Man. I usually agree with your posts, but this list is a bit ridiculous. You would take David Lee over bargs? C'mon. Charlie V? Mbah Moute?

        I understand you are trying to make a point, but this is forced and makes you look like a hater instead of a rationale critic.
        Umm, If you wouldn't take David Lee over Bargnani then you are crazy.

        He's basically the polar opposite of Bargnani when it comes to rebounding - amongst the league leaders every year for rebounds per game and total rebound %. He's a better playmaker than Bargnani. He scores much more efficiently and ranks 5th amongst active NBA players in FG % and 6th in offensive rating. If Colangelo called Golden State and asked about a Bargnani for Lee swap he would get hung up on.

        Comment


        • #19
          WhatWhat wrote: View Post
          1. Ibaka
          2. Dirk
          3. Carl Landry
          4. Scola
          5. Amar'e
          6. Duncan
          7. Pau Gasol
          8. Marc Gasol
          9. Kevin Love
          10. Blake Griffin
          11. Aldridge
          12. Boozer
          13. Garnett
          14. Z-Bo
          15. Josh Smith
          16. David Lee
          17. Paul Millsap
          18. Luc Mbah Moute
          19. Brandon Bass
          20. Kenyon Martin
          21. Channing Frye
          22. Jeff Green
          23. Derrick Favors
          24. Boris Diaw
          25. Anderson Varejao
          26. JJ Hickson
          27. Greg Monroe*
          28. Jason Maxiell
          29. Villanueva
          30. Jordan Hill
          31. Tyler Hansbrough
          32. Udonis Haslem
          33. Ryan Anderson

          I'd would rather have all of those players instead of White Swan starting for me. Even if some of them are old farts, in basketball years.
          I'm not sure what is worse your repeated use of a terrible nickname in white swan or your list of the 30 better players. I do apologize as i couldn't read the rest of your post and it may have had some good information but the list was too much to look past...

          Comment


          • #20
            Fully wrote: View Post
            And then when he became our second option, we became a fringe playoff team.

            When he became our centerpiece, we won 22 games.

            As Bargnani's role has increased with the team, we've regressed.
            Do you really believe Dre's increased role is the only factor? lol

            By center piece you mean best player as the team went into rebuild mode? I hope your not insisting that the team was built around him...

            This is just a typical post with no substance to it what so ever other then negativity towards Dre. How has the rest of the roster looked like since those days? I'm sure the talent is about on par for the other players under contract too right.

            Comment


            • #21
              c_bcm wrote: View Post
              Exactly! We have to have some semblance of an identity handed down by head office before the league will start to notice this team. Other wise it looks like a continuation of the clusterf^&k from the past decade. All those calling for Colangelos head don't seem to realize how harmful this high turnover rate is to this franchise.
              Players don't give a crap about continuity at the general manager position if that said GM is putting a lousy team on the floor year after year. Most players care about two things when they sign somewhere. How much money they're getting paid and what their chances of winning are there. Other things like weather and night life can play a role for certain players as well, but turnover at the GM position ranks pretty low on the list of criteria.

              Comment


              • #22
                RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                Do you really believe Dre's increased role is the only factor? lol

                By center piece you mean best player as the team went into rebuild mode? I hope your not insisting that the team was built around him...

                This is just a typical post with no substance to it what so ever other then negativity towards Dre. How has the rest of the roster looked like since those days? I'm sure the talent is about on par for the other players under contract too right.
                Obviously, there's a ton of factors that have contributed to the Raptors decline besides an increase in Bargnani's involvement. Maybe I should have prefaced my comments with that but I thought it would have gone without saying. I guess not.

                However I do believe that there is a correlation between the two. When we won the Atlantic Division, Bargnani was a complementary player who came off the bench. With a similar roster over the next few seasons, but with Bargnani appointed as our "second option" and inserted in the starting lineup, we slid out of the playoff picture or barely made it in just to get worked over in the first round. This season, with him as the centerpiece of the team, we were one of the worst in the league.

                I blame Colangelo for that, not Bargnani. But the point I'm trying to make is that Bargnani is not a player worthy of all these accomodations or excuses.
                Last edited by Fully; Wed Aug 10, 2011, 09:56 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Fully wrote: View Post
                  Obviously, there's a ton of factors that have contributed to the Raptors decline besides an increase in Bargnani's involvement. Maybe I should have prefaced my comments with that but I thought it would have gone without saying. I guess not.

                  However I do believe that there is a correlation between the two. When we won the Atlantic Division, Bargnani was a complementary player who came off the bench. With a similar roster over the next few seasons, but with Bargnani appointed as our "second option", we slid out of the playoff picture or barely made it in just to get worked over in the first round. This season, with him as the centerpiece of the team, we were one of the worst in the league.

                  I blame Colangelo for that, not Bargnani. But the point I'm trying to make is that Bargnani is not a player worthy of all these accomodations or excuses.
                  Of course it's obvious that the rest of the roster would have an effect on the teams record but your post was similar to a majority that only focused the negative directly at one player.

                  I agree that Dre isn't worthy of accommodations as well but I also don't see that Raptors making a lot for him. If they were they would have surrounded him by great defenders or at least average ones. Have they allowed him to play (through mistakes) and develop bad habits both offensively and defensively? No question about it for the past 2 and a half years (essentially when Jay took over). But during that time he wasn't the only player who had this luxury as Demar also enjoyed a no consequences for his actions type playing time. When your team is as bad as the Raptors (this past year more then ever) you play your young guys as much as possible. I agree he's been cut some slack but it's not out of the ordinary for young players on bad teams to get the same treatment.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                    Of course it's obvious that the rest of the roster would have an effect on the teams record but your post was similar to a majority that only focused the negative directly at one player.

                    I agree that Dre isn't worthy of accommodations as well but I also don't see that Raptors making a lot for him. If they were they would have surrounded him by great defenders or at least average ones. Have they allowed him to play (through mistakes) and develop bad habits both offensively and defensively? No question about it for the past 2 and a half years (essentially when Jay took over). But during that time he wasn't the only player who had this luxury as Demar also enjoyed a no consequences for his actions type playing time. When your team is as bad as the Raptors (this past year more then ever) you play your young guys as much as possible. I agree he's been cut some slack but it's not out of the ordinary for young players on bad teams to get the same treatment.
                    Where do you get the name Dre for Andrea? Are you trying to make him sound more masculine?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      j bean wrote: View Post
                      Where do you get the name Dre for Andrea? Are you trying to make him sound more masculine?
                      See the bold in your question and let me know if you have any other questions.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                        See the bold in your question and let me know if you have any other questions.
                        Why not call him Rea, And or Ndr if all you are doing is picking three letters out of his name?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                          Of course it's obvious that the rest of the roster would have an effect on the teams record but your post was similar to a majority that only focused the negative directly at one player.

                          I agree that Dre isn't worthy of accommodations as well but I also don't see that Raptors making a lot for him. If they were they would have surrounded him by great defenders or at least average ones. Have they allowed him to play (through mistakes) and develop bad habits both offensively and defensively? No question about it for the past 2 and a half years (essentially when Jay took over). But during that time he wasn't the only player who had this luxury as Demar also enjoyed a no consequences for his actions type playing time. When your team is as bad as the Raptors (this past year more then ever) you play your young guys as much as possible. I agree he's been cut some slack but it's not out of the ordinary for young players on bad teams to get the same treatment.
                          I consider moving him to the PF and squeezing ED and Amir's playing time to be a major accomodation. Not only is Colangelo making an excuse for Bargnani's defensive shortcomings ("he's being miscast as a five" - BC) but he's doing it at the expense of two young players who need playing time to develop in their own right, especially Ed. The hiring of a defensive coach and the talk of acquiring a defensive minded center are two other examples that can be interpreted as an accomodation for Bargnani.

                          The difference between DeRozan and Bargnani is that they're in different stages of their development. Bargnani was given the same opportunities that DD has gotten these past two seasons when he first arrived with the team, and I don't recall anyone being upset about it at the time. However he's been here five seasons now and hasn't improved his rebounding or defence a lick. In fact, you can argue that it's gotten worse.

                          At what point do you say enough is enough and stop waiting for Bargnani to "show a little more effort" to get those extra couple rebounds or for a lightbulb to go off in his head and for him to stop dogging it defensively. When he's 27? 28? 30? What more motivation should he need at this point? He has a long term deal that pays him great money. He's been given playing time since day one and has enjoyed an increased role every season, culminating in this year where he was given "the man" duties. I honestly wonder why people are so adamant about making it work with him if he can't find it within himself to consistently give his best effort in a situation that 95% of the players in the league would kill for.

                          DeRozan turned 22 this week and saw a bigger jump between his first and second season then Bargnani ever has from one year to the next. The thing that ultimately sets them apart for me is that I see the effort from DD every night, which encourages me that he'll be able to fix up the holes in his own defensive game. If he's still the exact same player four years from now but the team still is adamant about him being a major piece going forward then I'll bitch about that too. But for the time being it's a completely different scenario.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            it sounds more hip hop than Drea, which is actually the nickname his teammates use.
                            LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Fully wrote: View Post
                              I consider moving him to the PF and squeezing ED and Amir's playing time to be a major accomodation. Not only is Colangelo making an excuse for Bargnani's defensive shortcomings ("he's being miscast as a five" - BC) but he's doing it at the expense of two young players who need playing time to develop in their own right, especially Ed. The hiring of a defensive coach and the talk of acquiring a defensive minded center are two other examples that can be interpreted as an accomodation for Bargnani.

                              The difference between DeRozan and Bargnani is that they're in different stages of their development. Bargnani was given the same opportunities that DD has gotten these past two seasons when he first arrived with the team, and I don't recall anyone being upset about it at the time. However he's been here five seasons now and hasn't improved his rebounding or defence a lick. In fact, you can argue that it's gotten worse.

                              At what point do you say enough is enough and stop waiting for Bargnani to "show a little more effort" to get those extra couple rebounds or for a lightbulb to go off in his head and for him to stop dogging it defensively. When he's 27? 28? 30? What more motivation should he need at this point? He has a long term deal that pays him great money. He's been given playing time since day one and has enjoyed an increased role every season, culminating in this year where he was given "the man" duties. I honestly wonder why people are so adamant about making it work with him if he can't find it within himself to consistently give his best effort in a situation that 95% of the players in the league would kill for.

                              DeRozan turned 22 this week and saw a bigger jump between his first and second season then Bargnani ever has from one year to the next. The thing that ultimately sets them apart for me is that I see the effort from DD every night, which encourages me that he'll be able to fix up the holes in his own defensive game. If he's still the exact same player four years from now but the team still is adamant about him being a major piece going forward then I'll bitch about that too. But for the time being it's a completely different scenario.
                              So the accommodation you speak of hasn't even happened yet but is being talked about? Not sure if your aware or not but the season hasn't begun and they haven't made any moves yet for this accommodation you speak of..... If it happens then for sure your comment is relevant but unless you have a crystal ball that sees the future don't see your point. You must understand what is said by management and done isn't always the same thing.

                              I think your under the impression that I'm arguing for Dre but I'm simply disputing your flawed comments regarding the team has accommodated to him only.

                              As for the comparisons between him and Demar here are the stat lines between them for their first two years. Your right Demar made significant improvements but he also was given a ton more minutes in his second season compared to Dre. Yet again I'm not defending the guy I'm simply showing his situation is not different then others. The treatment/favoritism he's received from management has been blown way out of proportion.

                              Bargnani
                              06-07 TOR 65 2 25.1 0.427 0.373 0.824 0.8 3.1 3.9 0.8 0.5 0.8 1.65 2.77 11.6
                              07-08 TOR 78 53 23.9 0.386 0.345 0.840 0.6 3.1 3.7 1.1 0.3 0.5 1.13 2.71 10.2

                              Derozan
                              09-10 TOR 77 65 21.6 0.498 0.250 0.763 0.9 2.0 2.9 0.7 0.6 0.2 0.81 2.29 8.6
                              10-11 TOR 82 82 34.8 0.467 0.096 0.813 0.9 2.9 3.8 1.8 1.0 0.4 1.76 2.65 17.2

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                                So the accommodation you speak of hasn't even happened yet but is being talked about? Not sure if your aware or not but the season hasn't begun and they haven't made any moves yet for this accommodation you speak of..... If it happens then for sure your comment is relevant but unless you have a crystal ball that sees the future don't see your point. You must understand what is said by management and done isn't always the same thing.
                                As you so kindly pointed out for me, the NBA season hasn't started yet. I've even heard rumblings that the NBA is in the midst of a lockout. I look forward to your next post where you can either confirm/deny this for me.

                                Because of these facts though, the only thing I have to go by at this point in time is what Colangelo said at his end of the season presser, which was the following: 1) Andrea is miscast as a five 2) He's going to play the power forward spot next season for us and 3) we're going to go after a defensive big man to help with Bargnani's defensive shortcomings.

                                Are any of these three things guaranteed? Of course not. Maybe none of them will happen, maybe they all will. But please don't act like I'm taking a blind leap or faith or completely talking out of my ass by taking what was said by the president/GM of the franchise during a nationally televised press conference and using it to make some logical deductions.
                                I think your under the impression that I'm arguing for Dre but I'm simply disputing your flawed comments regarding the team has accommodated to him only.

                                As for the comparisons between him and Demar here are the stat lines between them for their first two years. Your right Demar made significant improvements but he also was given a ton more minutes in his second season compared to Dre. Yet again I'm not defending the guy I'm simply showing his situation is not different then others. The treatment/favoritism he's received from management has been blown way out of proportion.

                                Bargnani
                                06-07 TOR 65 2 25.1 0.427 0.373 0.824 0.8 3.1 3.9 0.8 0.5 0.8 1.65 2.77 11.6
                                07-08 TOR 78 53 23.9 0.386 0.345 0.840 0.6 3.1 3.7 1.1 0.3 0.5 1.13 2.71 10.2

                                Derozan
                                09-10 TOR 77 65 21.6 0.498 0.250 0.763 0.9 2.0 2.9 0.7 0.6 0.2 0.81 2.29 8.6
                                10-11 TOR 82 82 34.8 0.467 0.096 0.813 0.9 2.9 3.8 1.8 1.0 0.4 1.76 2.65 17.2
                                I'm impressed by your copy and paste skills but what point of mine are these supposed to dispute exactly? I just got finished saying that Derozan and Bargnani both got similar opportunities during their first two seasons in Toronto.

                                Bargnani was given the same opportunities that DD has gotten these past two seasons when he first arrived with the team, and I don't recall anyone being upset about it at the time. However he's been here five seasons now and hasn't improved his rebounding or defence a lick. In fact, you can argue that it's gotten worse.

                                What I said is that Derozan had a bigger jump from his first year to the next than Bargnani has ever done. That's true. You were nice enough to even post the stats for me to prove it.

                                I also said that Bargnani after five years should be judged differently than DeRozan after two which you didn't bother to mention at all. The last thing I said was that if Derozan has plateaued after 5 seasons but the franchise is still set on having him be a major piece going forward then I'd feel the exact same way as I do about Bargnani now but you didn't mention that either.
                                Last edited by Fully; Wed Aug 10, 2011, 01:34 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X