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  • #31
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I certainly agree there's no harm in trying it.

    I'm just attempting to temper expectations of a rejuvenated/transformed Bargnani
    lol fair enough. From what I'm reading, even those in favor of trying it out still have Bargnani squarely on the trade block! I think expectations have long since been tempered accordingly.

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    • #32
      I'm reading this thread. Shaking my head. And wondering what kind of narcotic Bargnani's name gives off to make people so addicted to him.

      Just one last hit.... just one more drink.... just one more taste.....

      Comment


      • #33
        Craiger wrote: View Post
        I'm reading this thread. Shaking my head. And wondering what kind of narcotic Bargnani's name gives off to make people so addicted to him.

        Just one last hit.... just one more drink.... just one more taste.....
        lol

        Funny b/c true.

        Comment


        • #34
          Craiger wrote: View Post
          I'm reading this thread. Shaking my head. And wondering what kind of narcotic Bargnani's name gives off to make people so addicted to him.

          Just one last hit.... just one more drink.... just one more taste.....
          Of dat delicious PRIMO PASTA!

          Comment


          • #35
            themasao wrote: View Post
            Of dat delicious PRIMO PASTA!
            Don't diss the Primo! that shit is delicious

            Comment


            • #36
              Lark Benson wrote: View Post
              I know I'm in the minority here, but the more I think about it, the less dumping Bargs for spare parts makes sense. We all know that his value is probably limited right now, and aside from waiting to see if he improves in order to maximize his value (which is an upside-only proposition since it probably can't get much, if any, lower), I think there are some reasons to think that Bargs could actually contribute to the team.

              First off, he's not the team's primary scorer any longer. With DeRozan's increasing ability on the wing and Gay's arrival, Bargs is looking at a drastic reduction in shots compared to the last couple of years. And I really think that's the best thing for him. Being an alpha dog on offense is not his game, but like so many Raptors before him the organization placed that burden on his shoulders due to lack of choice. We all know the results: a lot of long 2s and a lot of ball stopping.

              But what Bargs is great at is spacing the floor and being the trigger guy who finishes swing or drive and kick sequences with jumpers that are often open because the opposing big has been sucked into the paint or doesn't want to stray from the rim to guard him. Looking at a Lowry-Gay-DeRozan trio on the wings, you can see why that particular skill set would be extremely useful, not only for opening driving lanes but also for receiving passes and doing what he does best. The key would be Casey getting into his head about shot selection and the need to swing the ball if he doesn't have an open jumper instead of forcing shots up. But on a team with so many scorers, hopefully he can unlearn that bad habit.

              Now of course this all comes with a huge caveat: his defense. We all know it's bad, we all get angry watching him loaf around. I don't know if lessening the scoring load would free up energy for the defensive end, but I do think that his rebounding can be made up for with the Lowry/DeMar/Gay combo crashing the boards and one of Val and Amir with him at all times. That's a strong rebounding lineup at 4/5 positions. You would hope Casey would distribute playing time to Andrea only if he commits to playing harder on D, and in general I think Bargs would benefit from a reduction in minutes with the emphasis on playing as hard as possible during those shorter stretches. Realistically though, it's probably a lost cause.

              But to me, a Bargnani with a decreased but more specialized offensive role and more playing time against opposing benches could really be an asset going forward. He's not going to be worth his 10 mil/yr contract or his draft position, but that doesn't mean he can't help the team. Gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out.
              The more I think about the team the way it is, the more I realize that Bargnani is about as relevant to our success (now and in the future) as john Lucas is.

              For us to continue to emphasize the importance of trading what has now become our 9th or 10th best player is kind of....stupid.

              If he accepts his role as a 6th or 7th man off the bench to provide some scoring at certain points in the game, then what do we care? He won't be on for the important parts of the game anyway.

              I, like a lot of us, have always said that he would be a great 6th man....why not give it a shot?

              Comment


              • #37
                Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
                Don't diss the Primo! that shit is delicious
                You misunderstand me good sir -- it's so delicious, it might as well be a drug (as Il Mago knows alllll too well).

                Comment


                • #38
                  Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                  I agree you take any worthy offer, but there's a lot of talk about amnestying him just to get him off the roster, or taking back a contract just to dump him. That's not good business in my opinion.

                  I do disagree about his value having flatlined though. I do think it's flatlined relative to the role he's been playing the last few years, that his value as a reliable first even second option is pretty set. But we haven't seen 'cog in the machine' Bargs yet, and I think that's where his value can go up. If he can prove that he can play team-first ball and focus on playing within the flow of the offense instead of dominating the ball (and that's a HUGE if), then his value should rise because it will show that he can play in a lot more situations around the league and fit onto a lot more rosters. It just opens up more options; even if the value of what you might get back in return won't necessarily climb that much higher, you're looking at being able to pick and choose what to take back instead of having to accept whatever your only buyer is willing to give up. Maybe that's splitting hairs, but I think it makes a difference.
                  After 7 years though? You think Bargs can change his game at this point in his career? I have doubts that he could, but more importantly are GM's gonna buy into such a small sample size and equally important how effective is Bargs as a role player? Does another team want to pick up his contract for a guy who is just going to be a role player? One that can't even do the role player things like hustle, box out, defend etc.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    BArgnani has gotta go. There is no happy ending for him here in Toronto and it's his own damned fault. Coming off the bench to face the oppositions bench (if only it always worked so easily) doesn't matter. He'll still jack up shots early and often, he'll still be the worst help defender I've ever seen, his man defence will come and go, his effort on the glass will still be nonexistent. The worst part is if he puts together another magical stretch of good games and everyone loses their fucking minds again and demand he takes on a larger, starting role.

                    Just trade him. We don't need him, he doesn't need us. We REALLY need a backup PG and a cheap back up pf/c. Ideally steady vets. Nothing spectacular, just guys who know how to play a role. "Scraps" like that will improve this team so much more than an inefficient, uncaring "stretch" 4 who doesn't rebound or defend.
                    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                      I know I'm in the minority here, but the more I think about it, the less dumping Bargs for spare parts makes sense. We all know that his value is probably limited right now, and aside from waiting to see if he improves in order to maximize his value (which is an upside-only proposition since it probably can't get much, if any, lower), I think there are some reasons to think that Bargs could actually contribute to the team.

                      First off, he's not the team's primary scorer any longer. With DeRozan's increasing ability on the wing and Gay's arrival, Bargs is looking at a drastic reduction in shots compared to the last couple of years. And I really think that's the best thing for him. Being an alpha dog on offense is not his game, but like so many Raptors before him the organization placed that burden on his shoulders due to lack of choice. We all know the results: a lot of long 2s and a lot of ball stopping.

                      But what Bargs is great at is spacing the floor and being the trigger guy who finishes swing or drive and kick sequences with jumpers that are often open because the opposing big has been sucked into the paint or doesn't want to stray from the rim to guard him. Looking at a Lowry-Gay-DeRozan trio on the wings, you can see why that particular skill set would be extremely useful, not only for opening driving lanes but also for receiving passes and doing what he does best. The key would be Casey getting into his head about shot selection and the need to swing the ball if he doesn't have an open jumper instead of forcing shots up. But on a team with so many scorers, hopefully he can unlearn that bad habit.

                      Now of course this all comes with a huge caveat: his defense. We all know it's bad, we all get angry watching him loaf around. I don't know if lessening the scoring load would free up energy for the defensive end, but I do think that his rebounding can be made up for with the Lowry/DeMar/Gay combo crashing the boards and one of Val and Amir with him at all times. That's a strong rebounding lineup at 4/5 positions. You would hope Casey would distribute playing time to Andrea only if he commits to playing harder on D, and in general I think Bargs would benefit from a reduction in minutes with the emphasis on playing as hard as possible during those shorter stretches. Realistically though, it's probably a lost cause.

                      But to me, a Bargnani with a decreased but more specialized offensive role and more playing time against opposing benches could really be an asset going forward. He's not going to be worth his 10 mil/yr contract or his draft position, but that doesn't mean he can't help the team. Gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out.
                      +1

                      but i still want to #freebargs

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                        I know I'm in the minority here, but the more I think about it, the less dumping Bargs for spare parts makes sense. We all know that his value is probably limited right now, and aside from waiting to see if he improves in order to maximize his value (which is an upside-only proposition since it probably can't get much, if any, lower), I think there are some reasons to think that Bargs could actually contribute to the team.
                        I agree with this, but from a different direction. I believe we need one more key piece to be a contender, probably a PF or C who'll be somewhere around Bargs' salary. But if we simply trade Bargnani for an expiring and a pick (an option I would have supported a week ago because it, combined with Calderon's expiring, would have been a lot of cap space to work with) and amnesty Kleiza, that still probably puts us only a couple million under the cap, not nearly enough to score that last piece. It's unlikely we could get anything more than the $5 million player we could pick up with the MLE. There's a good chance that amnestying Kleiza alone would allow us to use all of that MLE. So trading Bargnani for an expiring doesn't get us any further ahead (other than any throw-in pick that we get, and any supposed addition by subtraction from moving Bargnani).

                        On the other hand, if we hold onto Bargnani, then we have a matching salary to move when another team has a big they want to move who might be a better fit for us. On the other hand, a sign-and-trade that helps us get a guy like Millsap or Hickson is something I'd do in a heartbeat.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          octothorp wrote: View Post
                          I agree with this, but from a different direction. I believe we need one more key piece to be a contender, probably a PF or C who'll be somewhere around Bargs' salary. But if we simply trade Bargnani for an expiring and a pick (an option I would have supported a week ago because it, combined with Calderon's expiring, would have been a lot of cap space to work with) and amnesty Kleiza, that still probably puts us only a couple million under the cap, not nearly enough to score that last piece. It's unlikely we could get anything more than the $5 million player we could pick up with the MLE. There's a good chance that amnestying Kleiza alone would allow us to use all of that MLE. So trading Bargnani for an expiring doesn't get us any further ahead (other than any throw-in pick that we get, and any supposed addition by subtraction from moving Bargnani).

                          On the other hand, if we hold onto Bargnani, then we have a matching salary to move when another team has a big they want to move who might be a better fit for us. On the other hand, a sign-and-trade that helps us get a guy like Millsap or Hickson is something I'd do in a heartbeat.
                          As of now, no sign and trade for the Raps as they are a tax team for next year.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Bargs has 2 weeks to up his value. If there's no takers or BC gets lowballed, he'll stay here until the offseason. Fans wishing that somehow getting Millsap for Bargs (involving 2 or 3 other teams) are living in an alternate universe, or smokin' really good herbs.
                            “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Craiger wrote: View Post
                              I'm reading this thread. Shaking my head. And wondering what kind of narcotic Bargnani's name gives off to make people so addicted to him.

                              Just one last hit.... just one more drink.... just one more taste.....
                              He can [sometimes] score a lot points, which makes him AWESOME!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                They can sign and trade as long as it doesn't put them over the apron

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