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  • #31
    It's not a fair comparison because Jermaine in his prime was a polished scorer both with his back to the bucket and while facing up.

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    • #32
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      It's not a fair comparison because Jermaine in his prime was a polished scorer both with his back to the bucket and while facing up.
      Oh stop being such a party pooper! we already have the next Dirk, the next Gasol and the next Kobe. We Raptor fans like to be dissapointed even though the guy who should have been the Jordan and the guy who should have been KG came close but never made it either.

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      • #33
        Bargs = Dirk, Demar = Kobe, Ed = JO, Val = T. Chandler. My, what a strong team we have... [;
        The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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        • #34
          stretch wrote: View Post
          If Bargnani is traded, I am wondering how the Raptors are going to put points on the board. Derozen is becoming a solid option and Barbosa, on a good night, can light it up off the bench, but together they accounted for just over 30 points a game last season. Where are the points going to come from with a future front line of Valanciunas, Amir/Davis, and James Johnson?
          This is a team that just won 22 games and probably won't make the playoffs for at least another year. They were last in the league in defense the last two years and Bargnani is a big reason why. I think one of the last things they need to worry about is how to replace his scoring. Besides, players step up when there is a scoring void. Bargnani's points would go, but so would his shot attempts. That means there's more shot attempts for other players. It's not as if Bargnani was a very efficient scorer. Spread his shot attempts around to other players and it won't matter.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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          • #35
            Assuming that Bayless can keep up his play as a starter, then all we would have to do is start him over Calderon, effectively solving the void in usage. (Come on, he can put up an offensive rating of 105 on 25% usage (I think that's what it was when he was starting) or so.) Either way, we wouldn't be an actual good offensive team barring considerable internal improvement.

            Secondly, I seriously struggle to see how moving an inefficient scorer in Bargnani, who is God awful at the other facets of the game will hurt the team overall. I'd go as far as saying that as long as we start him and Calderon together then it will guarantee a high lotto pick.

            Or you know, get a real SF.

            Also, J O'Neal is a terrible offensive player. He's ever less efficient than Bargnani. But he rebounds...and plays defense.

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            • #36
              With Ed, Val and Amir as our three bigs we could have 3 guys playing significant minutes and all shooting 55% to 60% from the floor. That's ridiculous. I expect Ed's FG% to slide a bit as his offensive game expands, but still.

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              • #37
                WhatWhat wrote: View Post
                Secondly, I seriously struggle to see how moving an inefficient scorer in Bargnani, who is God awful at the other facets of the game will hurt the team overall. I'd go as far as saying that as long as we start him and Calderon together then it will guarantee a high lotto pick.
                Actually, Calderon was one of the few Raptors that actually had a positive effect when he was on the floor. If you want to lose, limit both he and Amir's minutes.
                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                • #38
                  Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  Actually, Calderon was one of the few Raptors that actually had a positive effect when he was on the floor. If you want to lose, limit both he and Amir's minutes.
                  Ssshhh, Buddah's listening! Haha whatever happened to that guy? I'm sure he's all over the Clipper boards on some Blake Griffin or DeAndre Jordan business!

                  As for the topic at hand, I'm gonna try to not compare our draft picks to other players anymore. It just sets up false hopes or expectations if he fails to reach that said players status most of the time. I'm just gonna be patient and watch this rebuild(wait... were the Raps ever built in order to set up a rebuild??) unfold and have fun doing it.

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                  • #39
                    MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
                    Bullshit, you don't know anything about Sam or coaching in the NBA.

                    ...and this is why its still going to take years for puck heads to understand basketball. All Sam did was bring us to the playoffs, won COY, but it should have been Bryan with the COY, LOL. When Sam left, so did the teams accountability. As did our playoff hopes, as did our respect around the league.

                    Sam won, in-spite of Bryan's blunders and asinine ideas. How do you play defence with Kapono and Belineli?
                    Your right I know nothing about basketball, the NBA or coaching. Just curious how many job offers Sams turned down since his incredible run as the Raptors head coach. It's been a few years and the only rumor anyone has mentioned with him getting another shot is with the Wolves. I wonder if it was more to do with the fact he played there for so many years or that no one wants to touch that job. But wait he still didn't get it...... Weird :s

                    Sam was taking us to the lottery before the overhaul of 9 new faces and full of solid vets with great basketball IQ. His team had one stud player in Bosh and surrounded him with solid vets in Parker, Garbo, Rasho, a solid PG tandem of Ford and Jose and some decent weapons off the bench in Dre, Kapono and Delfino that could knock down three's. They won a division title in a horrendous Atlantic division and got bounced from the playoffs in the first round twice. They were okay at best but were never a great defensive team by any means and the offense had success from the players IQ and Bosh's efficiency not from his play calling. Sam asked for toughness and BC made the move for JO I wonder if this had Sam's approval? After an underachieving start to the season, awful rotations and the obvious lack of respect from the player in his system and coaching he was let go. This was after Mitchell claimed to have a new version of the twin towers.... With great views on the game, his rosters talent/abilities and his incredible talents of developing players I don't understand why no one has given him a job... :s

                    Could be tough to play D with Kapono and Marco on the floor I'll give you that...... Wait didn't Pat Riley find away to win a championship with Kapono on the floor.... Hhhmmm Marco seemed to have a starting job on a Hornets team that had the 5th best points against average this past year. Of course there is no way of playing defense with those two guys on the floor, if Sam couldn't do it no one could..... Or could they?

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                    • #40
                      By the way "mymomlovesme" Marco never played for Sam only Jay. You may want to put some research into your posts unless your sure or you might lose some credibility with your points.... Just something to consider when attacking others is to perhaps have something correct in your argument "puck head" lol

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                      • #41
                        MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
                        Sam won, in-spite of Bryan's blunders and asinine ideas. How do you play defence with Kapono and Belineli?
                        Actually, Belinelli was (and is) a decent defender. It's why he started in New Orleans over the non-defense playing Marcus Thornton. And has already been mentioned, he never played for Mitchell.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                        • #42
                          RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                          Your right I know nothing about basketball, the NBA or coaching. Just curious how many job offers Sams turned down since his incredible run as the Raptors head coach. It's been a few years and the only rumor anyone has mentioned with him getting another shot is with the Wolves. I wonder if it was more to do with the fact he played there for so many years or that no one wants to touch that job. But wait he still didn't get it...... Weird :s

                          Sam was taking us to the lottery before the overhaul of 9 new faces and full of solid vets with great basketball IQ. His team had one stud player in Bosh and surrounded him with solid vets in Parker, Garbo, Rasho, a solid PG tandem of Ford and Jose and some decent weapons off the bench in Dre, Kapono and Delfino that could knock down three's. They won a division title in a horrendous Atlantic division and got bounced from the playoffs in the first round twice. They were okay at best but were never a great defensive team by any means and the offense had success from the players IQ and Bosh's efficiency not from his play calling. Sam asked for toughness and BC made the move for JO I wonder if this had Sam's approval? After an underachieving start to the season, awful rotations and the obvious lack of respect from the player in his system and coaching he was let go. This was after Mitchell claimed to have a new version of the twin towers.... With great views on the game, his rosters talent/abilities and his incredible talents of developing players I don't understand why no one has given him a job... :s

                          Could be tough to play D with Kapono and Marco on the floor I'll give you that...... Wait didn't Pat Riley find away to win a championship with Kapono on the floor.... Hhhmmm Marco seemed to have a starting job on a Hornets team that had the 5th best points against average this past year. Of course there is no way of playing defense with those two guys on the floor, if Sam couldn't do it no one could..... Or could they?

                          In spite of Bryan's incompetence and stupidity Sam was able to bring us to the playoffs. When Bryan took over coaching by hiring Triano, he soiled his underwear as well as Jay's.

                          Ideas like playing Andrea at the SF in the NBA are asinine. Only a moron like Colangelo would force a coach like Sam to implement it in the Playoff series so that he can see his pylon get some time. Only an individual that does not understand defence would put Andrea at the SF.


                          I hope Casey tells Bryan to stay the fuck out of the kitchen, because we are going to be eating some seriously botched meals if Bryan has any input.



                          Belineli a good defender? In what universe? The point is the Bryan has always been attracted to players that give no effort on the other side of the ball. If you think Triano had a badly put together defensive team, than Look at the garbage that Sam was given.

                          What kind of an idiot signs Kapono to 5 million? Even Kleiza? Why are they suddenly starters on our rosters? Bryan better get on his knees and kiss Sam Mitchells ass next time he sees him and thank him for allowing him to have a bit of success in Toronto by ridding his coat tails.

                          The team fell apart when Sam left, and Bryan was left to his own ineptitude. He is lucky to still have a job. I am sure Alex English and Wayne Embry were shaking their heads about the mess silver spoon boy found himself in.

                          Pat Riley find away to win a championship with Kapono on the floor.
                          Dude seriously, stick to hockey, how is Tie Domi? Kapono winning a championship for the Heat? LOL... is that why silver spoon boy threw all our cap space Kapono's way? It had nothing to do with Shaq or Wade? You puck heads always make me laugh.

                          Wake me up when Casey wins 47 games, so we can make a thread about what a great coach Bryan is once again. I am sick and tired of children elevating Colangelo to a deity. History has proven Sam's tenure to even his staunches detractors. We just still need to get through to some of their followers.

                          (If there is one coach that deserves to be treated like a VIP alumnus in this organization, it is Sam Mitchell, and all those that take credit away from the man, embarrass me to no end. )
                          Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Thu Jun 30, 2011, 01:55 AM.

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                          • #43
                            If Raptor fans want to show that they have come of age, and learn from this disaster, they better get right and show some humility in front of one of their best coaches who put his heart and soul for this franchise.

                            Karma is a bitch, and until fans in this market realize how much heart Sam gave they do not deserve even a morsel of his former success.


                            It's all good to let the man go because he is brash with the media, or for the sake of other implementations of the team... but to call him stupid, or inept in the face of a COY and his 2 trips to the PO, is disgraceful to me as Raptor fan and I feel shame for fellow fans that are still trapped in the prevailing gossip spun by the teenagers of yesterday.
                            Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Thu Jun 30, 2011, 02:11 AM.

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                            • #44
                              MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
                              In spite of Bryan's incompetence and stupidity Sam was able to bring us to the playoffs. When Bryan took over coaching by hiring Triano, he soiled his underwear as well as Jay's.

                              Ideas like playing Andrea at the SF in the NBA are asinine. Only a moron like Colangelo would force a coach like Sam to implement it in the Playoff series so that he can see his pylon get some time. Only an individual that does not understand defence would put Andrea at the SF.
                              What is more likely was that Sam Mitchell and Triano were simply trying to find a way to utilize Bargnani, despite his rebounding and defensive deficiencies, plus the fact that Jermaine O'Neal was on the roster and playing the center position. It's something that has been proposed by a number of people around here.

                              MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
                              Belineli a good defender? In what universe?
                              Well, the universe that gives stats that he's actually an above average man to man defender in New Orleans and Toronto.

                              Like it or not, and despite him being European, Belinelli was and is a pretty decent defender. It's something I noticed when he played with the team, last season. Seemed pretty obvious to me and the stats seem to back me up on that. Just because you couldn't tell doesn't make it wrong.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                              Follow me on Twitter.

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                              • #45
                                MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
                                If Raptor fans want to show that they have come of age, and learn from this disaster, they better get right and show some humility in front of one of their best coaches who put his heart and soul for this franchise.
                                Come of age? I think I'm well past the point of coming of age. I was a very big NBA fan since long before there was a Raptor franchise. I thought Mitchell was a pretty good coach, but certainly not a great one. I didn't agree with him being fired, but that doesn't mean I don't think he'd eventually be replaced by a better coach. Mitchell was good at motivation and getting people on the same page, but he was not a good tactician and not a particularly good in-game coach. Like many of the Raptor positions over the years, Mitchell was incomplete. Put him and Triano together and you get a good coach.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

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