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DOUG SMITH on the draft. says raps take KEMBA @ 5

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  • #16
    Bargnani is definitely enough, but do you want to completely cut ties with that offense?

    I bet that MIN would part with Randolph, Milicic and the #2 for Bargnani and some TPE, straight up.

    Then what?
    It's about money

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    • #17
      Arsenalist wrote: View Post
      I will be shocked if there isn't a trade in the top four. And the Raptors won't take Kemba, it's Knight all the way for them.
      Except for the fact that Utah is going to take him at pick #3.
      The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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      • #18
        star_bury wrote: View Post
        nbadraft.net has Kanter going to the Cavs 1st overall. I'm confused.
        You're not the only one. If Cleveland takes Kanter #1, that 2nd pick suddenly becomes a lot more valuable. If the Raptors can move up and grab Irving at 2, that would be huge.

        I'm a big fan of Kanter, but I don't know whether I would take him over Irving.
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        • #19
          philwill wrote: View Post
          Bargnani is definitely enough, but do you want to completely cut ties with that offense?

          I bet that MIN would part with Randolph, Milicic and the #2 for Bargnani and some TPE, straight up.

          Then what?
          It's not the offense you want to cut ties with. It's the defense. I think if the T-WOlves want Bargnani and are willing to give up the #2 pick for him, you take anything else to make it work except Beasley.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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          • #20
            I just can't see MIN as a trade partner for Bargnani for the #2. I still think Bargnani has value out there, but I'm not sure it's that high, and I'm not sure he's that much of an add for MIN. Plus, if you believe CLE would be mad to pass on Irving -- as I do -- then TO trading Bargnani for the #2 only makes sense if they hang onto the #5 as well. Otherwise, it's pretty much a trade of Bargnani for Williams, and forces a subsequent trade of one of Williams, Amir, or Davis. Which is rife with risk for the GM, since you're pretty much guessing at the upside of all 3.

            TO is set at PF for the next 5 years with Johnson and Davis. Bringing in another 4 is not what they need, "asset collection" aside. The only reason for TO to move up in this draft is to get get Irving, and possibly Knight if they really think he's a franchise PG. Otherwise, keep the #5 and try to trade for another 5-15 pick instead.
            Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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            • #21
              jimmie wrote: View Post
              I just can't see MIN as a trade partner for Bargnani for the #2. I still think Bargnani has value out there, but I'm not sure it's that high, and I'm not sure he's that much of an add for MIN. Plus, if you believe CLE would be mad to pass on Irving -- as I do -- then TO trading Bargnani for the #2 only makes sense if they hang onto the #5 as well. Otherwise, it's pretty much a trade of Bargnani for Williams, and forces a subsequent trade of one of Williams, Amir, or Davis. Which is rife with risk for the GM, since you're pretty much guessing at the upside of all 3.

              TO is set at PF for the next 5 years with Johnson and Davis. Bringing in another 4 is not what they need, "asset collection" aside. The only reason for TO to move up in this draft is to get get Irving, and possibly Knight if they really think he's a franchise PG. Otherwise, keep the #5 and try to trade for another 5-15 pick instead.
              With Kahn, no one knows whether Minnesota is a likely trading partner for Bargnani. If I was him, they wouldn't be, but if I was him they wouldn't have done half the crap they have. You just never know.

              And Williams isn't a PF in the NBA. He's projected as a SF, which would be fine for the Raptors. If they trade up, though, it might be for Kanter or even Irving, if he isn't taken first.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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              • #22
                I don't know if I agree that Williams will be an NBA 3. I know people are saying it, but I don't see it based on his college game. I think he'll be an undersized 4. I mentioned David West in another post, and I still think that might be a good comparison. If he really can be a get-his-own-shot SF, then I'm all for having him in TO, but in this draft, I'd rather concentrate on BPA at one of the 2 positions of greatest need, and not sell the farm -- or sell assets that could otherwise help get a second top-15 pick or veteran C or starting PG -- for Williams. There's not a ton of separation among anyone in this draft (although I do think Irving could be special), and I'm not even sure whoever comes in at the 5 is even going to be a career starter.
                Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                • #23
                  Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  With Kahn, no one knows whether Minnesota is a likely trading partner for Bargnani. If I was him, they wouldn't be, but if I was him they wouldn't have done half the crap they have. You just never know.

                  And Williams isn't a PF in the NBA. He's projected as a SF, which would be fine for the Raptors. If they trade up, though, it might be for Kanter or even Irving, if he isn't taken first.
                  Min is prob really happy that they got the #2 instead of the #1. Makes life easier since they already have 14 PG's under contract. But if the Cavs draft Kanter #1 the Wolves' universe (and mine) would be maligned.
                  Eh follow my TWITTER!

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                  • #24
                    jimmie wrote: View Post
                    I don't know if I agree that Williams will be an NBA 3. I know people are saying it, but I don't see it based on his college game. I think he'll be an undersized 4. I mentioned David West in another post, and I still think that might be a good comparison. If he really can be a get-his-own-shot SF, then I'm all for having him in TO, but in this draft, I'd rather concentrate on BPA at one of the 2 positions of greatest need, and not sell the farm -- or sell assets that could otherwise help get a second top-15 pick or veteran C or starting PG -- for Williams. There's not a ton of separation among anyone in this draft (although I do think Irving could be special), and I'm not even sure whoever comes in at the 5 is even going to be a career starter.
                    I think Williams is much more athletic than David West. And I really don't see him having a problem scoring at the 3. My only worry with Williams is whether he can be a good defender there. Either way, though, I don't see many teams wanting to play him at the 4, where I think he'll have more defensive problems.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                    • #25
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      I think Williams is much more athletic than David West. And I really don't see him having a problem scoring at the 3. My only worry with Williams is whether he can be a good defender there. Either way, though, I don't see many teams wanting to play him at the 4, where I think he'll have more defensive problems.
                      Ditto.

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                      • #26
                        I for one hope that the raptors actually trade the 5th pick overall, and use that packaged with calderon to get us a nice veteran C or SF. I disagree that the raptors need to pick a PG, I think you give bayless a chance at PG. We do not need anymore youth, we were the 2nd youngest team in the NBA last year and if you took Reggie Evans out we were the youngest, I want to make the playoffs this coming year, I think its time to build around what we have.
                        "Defense wins championships."

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                        • #27
                          Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          I think Williams is much more athletic than David West. And I really don't see him having a problem scoring at the 3. My only worry with Williams is whether he can be a good defender there. Either way, though, I don't see many teams wanting to play him at the 4, where I think he'll have more defensive problems.
                          Well, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement for a #2 pick, then. And West used to be pretty athletic, too. Bottom line, I'd prefer to avoid the question marks attached to Williams as a #2 pick. TO is OK at the 3 for now, with a better draft coming in 2012, but they are really not OK at the 5, and are also pretty thin at the 1, especially if Calderon is being shopped.

                          As I said, I see no sense in moving up unless a) they also keep the #5, or b) they are assured of getting either Irving or Knight.
                          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                          • #28
                            SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                            I for one hope that the raptors actually trade the 5th pick overall, and use that packaged with calderon to get us a nice veteran C or SF. I disagree that the raptors need to pick a PG, I think you give bayless a chance at PG. We do not need anymore youth, we were the 2nd youngest team in the NBA last year and if you took Reggie Evans out we were the youngest, I want to make the playoffs this coming year, I think its time to build around what we have.
                            I have zero faith in Bayless developing into a starting-calibre PG; he sure as hell won't get this team (even with the added vet SF or C as you are asking for) to the playoffs in 2012. And if you package Calderon, who plays behind Bayless? TO needs a franchise PG in the worst way. I'm not saying that it should be the #1 priority this year, but it has to be high on the list.
                            Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                            • #29
                              jimmie wrote: View Post
                              Well, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement for a #2 pick, then. And West used to be pretty athletic, too. Bottom line, I'd prefer to avoid the question marks attached to Williams as a #2 pick. TO is OK at the 3 for now, with a better draft coming in 2012, but they are really not OK at the 5, and are also pretty thin at the 1, especially if Calderon is being shopped.

                              As I said, I see no sense in moving up unless a) they also keep the #5, or b) they are assured of getting either Irving or Knight.
                              I wasn't suggesting moving up to the #2 to draft Williams. It's just that IF the Raptors end up getting the pick, he'd obviously be an option. Kanter would be the other. I'd lean towards Kanter, but if Colangelo thinks that Williams is the better player, then that's who he should draft.

                              I don't know whether the SF position is OK, but it's not as bad as the 5 position. But a 22 win team shouldn't be looking to fill positions. They should draft the best player they can and sort if out later.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                              • #30
                                SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
                                I for one hope that the raptors actually trade the 5th pick overall, and use that packaged with calderon to get us a nice veteran C or SF. I disagree that the raptors need to pick a PG, I think you give bayless a chance at PG. We do not need anymore youth, we were the 2nd youngest team in the NBA last year and if you took Reggie Evans out we were the youngest, I want to make the playoffs this coming year, I think its time to build around what we have.
                                It's great to say the Raptors should build around what they have, but unfortunately what they have is a few decent players that might end up one day being good. But no elite talent. And they're not getting any elite talent in this draft. A veteran center or SF is not going to get the Raptors to the playoffs, unless they are Dwight Howard or LeBron James. And that ain't happening.

                                Trying to force your way into the playoffs with this group, and adding a couple of veterans, will get you a mediocre team that will perennially being fighting for a playoff spot, but never be a contender. That's not the future I'm looking for.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

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