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Marc Gasol suprised at how Raptors fans view Jose Calderon

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  • #31
    stretch wrote: View Post
    Giving big $$$ to a 38 year old free agent would be absurd. Draft Kabongo, I say!
    Giving big money to a 38 year old free agent who has been in decline for years from a physical and basketball perspective would be absurd. Actually the Raptors did that once with a certain C who turned out not to be more of a nightmare than a dream.

    However, giving big money to a 38 year old free agent who is still performing at an all-star level, is a fitness and health fanatic, has not played less than 74 games in the last 10 seasons, is the best pick and roll player in the league (on a roster with 2 great pick and roll finishers in AB and JV) is far from absurd.

    I do like the idea of drafting Kabongo to serve as backup for a couple of seasons before taking over. He is still raw but he is playing on a team lacking a lot of talent in Texas. He was one of the most highly touted prospects before this season started and he is #5 on the 2013 mock draft at DraftExpress.com.

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    • #32
      Texas had Espn's number 4 draft class from last season with four top 100 freshman plus they have junior J'Covan Brown who has played great this season (33 points on 18 shots vs. no. 5 Kansas last night). Butler, NCAA finalist last two years, has only had one top 100 recruit ever (Kyle Marshall). Number 8 Missouri has only one top 100 recruit.
      Last edited by stretch; Sun Mar 4, 2012, 04:54 PM.

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      • #33
        stretch wrote: View Post
        Texas had Espn's number 4 draft class from last season with four top 100 freshman plus they have junior J'Covan Brown who has played great this season (33 points on 18 shots vs. no. 5 Kansas last night). Butler, NCAA finalist last two years, has only had one top 100 recruit ever (Kyle Marshall). Number 8 Missouri has only one top 100 recruit.
        What have those freshman done? Brown is an undersized SG who would give Barbosa a run for Black Hole of the Year. Their starting C who is a senior did not play last year and prior to that never played more than 8 mpg in a season prior to this year.

        What Butler did or Missouri did has no relevance. The combination of team talent, personalities, and coaching has put those teams where they are - not rankings by ESPN that hardly translate to NCAA success. I've watched enough of Texas this year to realize Kabongo is not perfect nor a complete product but he has a lot of really great attributes and skills. It would be amazing to see what he could do in UNC or Kentucky with that type of talent around him.

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        • #34
          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
          I don't understand it either.

          To be honest, I'd be happy if he never left.

          Calderon:
          unselfish
          great passer
          great team mate
          coachable
          wonderful interview great guy

          would be good on veteran team playing behind a front line PG. Raps dont need to spen 1/5 of their salary cap on a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time... and does not fit in to the defensive philosophy.

          People are not RUNNING HIM OUT OF TOWN like HEDO... they just don't think he is a good fit in Toronto right now.
          "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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          • #35
            J'Covan's play has been quite stellar of late when the amount of attention he gets is considered. Ask anyone in Austin.

            It's moot, but Kabongo would have been buried on the bench at UNC and UK. Myck has 30 minutes per game on a winning team in a tough conference. Tough schedule too, but the Longhorns have no victories against top 25 teams which means they have to run the table in the conference tournament or no dance.

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            • #36
              stretch wrote: View Post
              J'Covan's play has been quite stellar of late when the amount of attention he gets is considered. Ask anyone in Austin.

              It's moot, but Kabongo would have been buried on the bench at UNC and UK. Myck has 30 minutes per game on a winning team in a tough conference. Tough schedule too, but the Longhorns have no victories against top 25 teams which means they have to run the table in the conference tournament or no dance.
              Kabongo might have been back up at UNC but I have no doubt he'd start versus Teague. Teague is a SG asked to play point.

              I don't know where the disagreement is coming in on Kabongo. You said draft Kabongo and I agreed. I think Kabongo is much better than many give him credit for.

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              • #37
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                I don't know where the disagreement is coming in on Kabongo. You said draft Kabongo and I agreed. I think Kabongo is much better than many give him credit for.
                Sorry, to be misleading. I was being facetious. The best I can say for MK is that he is a work in progress.

                Another totally irrelevant point I would like to make is that on the day where Kabongo failed to score in his big game at Kansas, Pangos had 30 points against a tournament bubble team, BYU, in the WCC tournament. I don't know if I agree with this but the ESPN announcer called Pangos "the best freshman point guard in the country."
                Last edited by stretch; Mon Mar 5, 2012, 12:59 AM. Reason: spelling

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                • #38
                  Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                  this team is and has been mediocre with jose for years.
                  Look whats been around him for years....
                  Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                  • #39
                    Another Calderon fan

                    For those who don't think Calderon is top 5, consider:

                    1) He is tied with Steve Nash as THE BEST passer in the NBA. He is third in assists per game (8.8) behind Rajon Rondo (9.9 assists but two more turnovers per game) and Steve Nash (11.0 assists but also two more turnovers per game than Jose).

                    2) And related, he has the least turnovers of any point guard in the game. Sexy? No. Does it win you games? Yes.

                    3) He's believe he's fourth at 3-point shooting percentage, behind Chris Paul, Steve Nash and Kyle Lowry.

                    4) His 2-point shooting percentage is top 10 as is his rebounding.

                    5) Defense - hard to judge. From what I've seen he comes in as average.

                    So you have the best and safest passer in the league, who is a very good shooter and rebounder for his position, and an average defender.

                    Would I take a Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry over Calderon? Absolutely.
                    Steve Nash? No - because Calderon has more good years left in him - though Nash is better today.
                    Rajon Rondo? No. Not as good a passer (especially on our team) and disruptive.
                    Derrick Rose or Stephen Curry? Better scorers, sure. Make your team better? Not so sure.

                    If you look at everything? Can you place him top five on performance today? He probably comes in around four or five. Is he top 10? Absolutely.

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                    • #40
                      Kuh wrote: View Post
                      For those who don't think Calderon is top 5, consider:

                      1) He is tied with Steve Nash as THE BEST passer in the NBA. He is third in assists per game (8.8) behind Rajon Rondo (9.9 assists but two more turnovers per game) and Steve Nash (11.0 assists but also two more turnovers per game than Jose).

                      2) And related, he has the least turnovers of any point guard in the game. Sexy? No. Does it win you games? Yes.

                      3) He's believe he's fourth at 3-point shooting percentage, behind Chris Paul, Steve Nash and Kyle Lowry.

                      4) His 2-point shooting percentage is top 10 as is his rebounding.

                      5) Defense - hard to judge. From what I've seen he comes in as average.

                      So you have the best and safest passer in the league, who is a very good shooter and rebounder for his position, and an average defender.

                      Would I take a Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry over Calderon? Absolutely.
                      Steve Nash? No - because Calderon has more good years left in him - though Nash is better today.
                      Rajon Rondo? No. Not as good a passer (especially on our team) and disruptive.
                      Derrick Rose or Stephen Curry? Better scorers, sure. Make your team better? Not so sure.

                      If you look at everything? Can you place him top five on performance today? He probably comes in around four or five. Is he top 10? Absolutely.

                      had it all sounding nice until you gave rose the shaft. between rose and paul is a tough decision. i think rose is the best player who plays the point in the league and paul is the best point guard

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                      • #41
                        Kuh wrote: View Post
                        For those who don't think Calderon is top 5, consider:

                        1) He is tied with Steve Nash as THE BEST passer in the NBA. He is third in assists per game (8.8) behind Rajon Rondo (9.9 assists but two more turnovers per game) and Steve Nash (11.0 assists but also two more turnovers per game than Jose).

                        2) And related, he has the least turnovers of any point guard in the game. Sexy? No. Does it win you games? Yes.

                        3) He's believe he's fourth at 3-point shooting percentage, behind Chris Paul, Steve Nash and Kyle Lowry.

                        4) His 2-point shooting percentage is top 10 as is his rebounding.

                        5) Defense - hard to judge. From what I've seen he comes in as average.

                        So you have the best and safest passer in the league, who is a very good shooter and rebounder for his position, and an average defender.

                        Would I take a Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry over Calderon? Absolutely.
                        Steve Nash? No - because Calderon has more good years left in him - though Nash is better today.
                        Rajon Rondo? No. Not as good a passer (especially on our team) and disruptive.
                        Derrick Rose or Stephen Curry? Better scorers, sure. Make your team better? Not so sure.

                        If you look at everything? Can you place him top five on performance today? He probably comes in around four or five. Is he top 10? Absolutely.
                        You don't think Rose makes his team better? I hardly think the Bulls are a championship contender without Rose.

                        Rondo, not as good a passer? That's a tough argument to sell considering he put up 20 assists last night.

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                        • #42
                          Kuh wrote: View Post
                          For those who don't think Calderon is top 5, consider:

                          1) He is tied with Steve Nash as THE BEST passer in the NBA. He is third in assists per game (8.8) behind Rajon Rondo (9.9 assists but two more turnovers per game) and Steve Nash (11.0 assists but also two more turnovers per game than Jose).

                          2) And related, he has the least turnovers of any point guard in the game. Sexy? No. Does it win you games? Yes.

                          3) He's believe he's fourth at 3-point shooting percentage, behind Chris Paul, Steve Nash and Kyle Lowry.

                          4) His 2-point shooting percentage is top 10 as is his rebounding.

                          5) Defense - hard to judge. From what I've seen he comes in as average.

                          So you have the best and safest passer in the league, who is a very good shooter and rebounder for his position, and an average defender.

                          Would I take a Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry over Calderon? Absolutely.
                          Steve Nash? No - because Calderon has more good years left in him - though Nash is better today.
                          Rajon Rondo? No. Not as good a passer (especially on our team) and disruptive.
                          Derrick Rose or Stephen Curry? Better scorers, sure. Make your team better? Not so sure.

                          If you look at everything? Can you place him top five on performance today? He probably comes in around four or five. Is he top 10? Absolutely.
                          Well argued but you'd have a better one re Jose as a top 10 pg. You seem to have forgotten at least 2 who merit a top 5 designation....Deron Williams & Russell Westbrook. Thereafter, Rubio, Harden (who could play pg), Holliday are pretty good as well. The one stat that has always been impressive about Jose is his turnover:assist ratio.

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                          • #43
                            wait, you'd really think Calderon is better than Rose and Rondo?
                            @sweatpantsjer

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                            • #44
                              So glad somebody brought this up. And we wonder why no decent players want to stay in Toronto, we don't appreciate talent and consistency, all we want is a quick fix. When we get that we want a rebuild. It really bothers me since Jose has been the epitome of class this season.

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                              • #45
                                ceez wrote: View Post
                                wait, you'd really think Calderon is better than Rose and Rondo?
                                as a passer: yes
                                "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                                -Churchill

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