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Disgruntled Fans 2012: Extended stinkfest? (#296)

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  • Letting Bayless walk at that reasonable of a deal wasn't something I was fond of. Alabi isn't worth mentioning as he never showed anything in two seasons to even be thought of as a worth while piece. I think JJ's worth has been overhyped based on how poor the other wing defenders were (DD, Kleiza and Forbes). Fields although overpaid is much better then JJ IMO. JJ has more highlight real blocks but Fields is the far superior shooter, better defender (less fouls), rebounder and has a much higher IQ. Ross is said to be a capable defender and can also spread the floor unlike JJ. Demar still has another gear or two in his game and I'd hate to see him moved unless it was a sure thing. The jury is out on Ed Davis and Amir is a solid but unspectacular big man on a reasonable contract depending on the week. BC hasn't abanoded the "rebuild" as he's aquired a 26 year old PG and signed a much needed wing who's 24 with both of them having a lot of expierance. The Jose deal could really help us or set us back time will tell.

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    • Negative

      Gee wiz....so much negativity.

      We're one many NBA teams that are BAD...things will get better.

      Be at peace
      It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.


      Muhammad Ali

      Comment


      • I would argue that "losing" Alabi, Bayless and JJ is addition by subtraction :-)

        DD & Davis & JJ for Iggy would essentially be an upgrade of DD at SF, while stabilizing the rotation with Amir as the established backup PF.

        When you also consider the addition of Valanciunas, Ross, Acy, Lowry and likely Fields, I don't know how anybody could rationally argue that the 2012-13 Raptors wouldn't be a significant improvement over last year's squad.

        2011-12 ROSTER
        C: Gray, Magloire, Alabi
        PF: Bargnani, Amir, Davis
        SF: JJ, Kleiza, Butler/Anderson
        SG: DeRozan, Barbosa, Forbes
        PG: Calderon, Bayless, Carter/Uzoh

        2012-13 ROSTER (based on original post of DD/JJ/Davis for Iggy)
        C: Valanciunas, Gray, Magloire
        PF: Bargnani, Amir, Acy
        SF: Iguodala, Kleiza
        SG: Fields, Ross
        PG: Lowry, Calderon, Uzoh


        Next year's team would be much better than last year's team, hands down.

        Comment


        • Those guys all suck, get a grip dude

          "they will loose:
          - Bayless
          - Derozen
          - Alabi
          - Davis
          - J Johnson
          - A Johnson (All in early 20's... so much for youngunz + weems)"
          Having those players on the roster will keep us in the lottery for years.

          For f*&^ sakes man, Iggy is on team USA. The talent of all those players combined is not enough to make team USA. Your post is a weird instance where a super-homer turns on the team for not keeping together a sub-par roster.

          Comment


          • NoBan wrote: View Post
            Bayless, DeRo, Davis, Johnson, Johnson, and Alabi will combine for 0 all star games over the course of their careers. Worrying about losing these guys is like getting upset that Triano is no longer the coach
            I think taking players or trading players should not be based on accolades and achievements but rather how that player fits the team. K. Perkins and Afflalo were highly coveted players at some point but they never had any accolades to show for. No all-star, no rookie honors.

            Except for Alabi, the 5 players you mentioned are very serviceable, and IMO, fits the Raps system and the team objectives. Of course if it means getting a superstar by trading these players is possible then of course do it, but to write them off coz theyre not "all-star" material is IMO a bit unreasonable.

            Comment


            • Wow. let the season play out. That's not being a true fan declaring the team as going to "Suck". I believe that with a full training camp, Casey will do what he has to do to make the guys work as a team. Have FAITH!

              Comment


              • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                I would argue that "losing" Alabi, Bayless and JJ is addition by subtraction :-)

                DD & Davis & JJ for Iggy would essentially be an upgrade of DD at SF, while stabilizing the rotation with Amir as the established backup PF.

                When you also consider the addition of Valanciunas, Ross, Acy, Lowry and likely Fields, I don't know how anybody could rationally argue that the 2012-13 Raptors wouldn't be a significant improvement over last year's squad.

                2011-12 ROSTER
                C: Gray, Magloire, Alabi
                PF: Bargnani, Amir, Davis
                SF: JJ, Kleiza, Butler/Anderson
                SG: DeRozan, Barbosa, Forbes
                PG: Calderon, Bayless, Carter/Uzoh

                2012-13 ROSTER (based on original post of DD/JJ/Davis for Iggy)
                C: Valanciunas, Gray, Magloire
                PF: Bargnani, Amir, Acy
                SF: Iguodala, Kleiza
                SG: Fields, Ross
                PG: Lowry, Calderon, Uzoh


                Next year's team would be much better than last year's team, hands down.
                To include JV, Ross and Acy in the equation and say adding them is a significant improvement from last year's team is still a bit premature, IMO. We have not seen these three play in an actual NBA so we cant really say how their play will affect the standings for the Raptors.

                However, IMO, the addition of Lowry and Fields (IF) will definitely be an improvement considering their skillset and what the Raps were lacking last season.

                Comment


                • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                  I think taking players or trading players should not be based on accolades and achievements but rather how that player fits the team. K. Perkins and Afflalo were highly coveted players at some point but they never had any accolades to show for. No all-star, no rookie honors.

                  Except for Alabi, the 5 players you mentioned are very serviceable, and IMO, fits the Raps system and the team objectives. Of course if it means getting a superstar by trading these players is possible then of course do it, but to write them off coz theyre not "all-star" material is IMO a bit unreasonable.
                  Bayless did not fit the system. He was an under-average defender and a me-first scorer. Both of those do not fit our system. There's a reason why Bayless bounces around so much.

                  DeRozen is a slightly better fit due to better lateral quickness on D, but he's a very poor shot that regressed in his third year. That's not a serviceable piece unless youre looking for an 8th man

                  Davis is supposed to be a strong defender with a work-in-progress offensive game. Except he often misses his assignment on D, seems overwhelmed by the speed of the NBA, and the "progress" on the offensive side is non-existent. Again, not serviceable.

                  Amir is actually serviceable. He's finally got his head on straight out there, knows his assignments, has a nose for the ball and is still quite athletic. He's serviceable as a 3rd guy in a 3-big-man rotation. He's by no means a key piece of a contender.

                  JJ is too fat and slow to guard NBA 3's on a night-in, night-out basis. He's got a good bball IQ and handle, but he's not good enough to start for a legit playoff team. He'd be a nice backup. I like James, but again it's not unreasonable to say that his career will be 100% unremarkable.

                  Comment


                  • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                    To include JV, Ross and Acy in the equation and say adding them is a significant improvement from last year's team is still a bit premature, IMO. We have not seen these three play in an actual NBA so we cant really say how their play will affect the standings for the Raptors.

                    However, IMO, the addition of Lowry and Fields (IF) will definitely be an improvement considering their skillset and what the Raps were lacking last season.
                    I would put it this way:

                    C: Valanciunas > Alabi (Gray & Magloire are constants, but shift from starter and backup, to backup and 3rd string)

                    PG: Lowry > Calderon AND Calderon > Bayless (Uzoh is a constant)

                    WINGS: Iguodala > DeRozan AND Fields > JJ AND Ross => Forbes (Kleiza is a constant)

                    - Davis (3rd string PF) > Acy, but was sacrificed to upgrade DeRozan and clear logjams at backup PF & backup SF

                    Comment


                    • yeah man I agree wit u Big chieft Charlz, You can't let go of talent....I dont know why ppl want to throw away JJ, this guy is good defensivily and he got some nice footwork offensively. This guy reminds me of a young Paul Pierce...and clearly do NOT trade DeRozan, that would be the craziest thing to do in the NBA. So many changes happen on this team it makes me wonder if its impossible to just keep the team you have in the NBA.

                      btw JJ has a blackbelet it Judo or something...no wonder this guy is fearless...and he's not fat! u kidding me, u fat!!

                      Comment


                      • charlz wrote: View Post
                        If they trade DeRozen and Davis for Iggy and quit on JJ Amir

                        they will loose:
                        - Bayless
                        - Derozen
                        - Alabi
                        - Davis
                        - J Johnson
                        - A Johnson (All in early 20's... so much for youngunz + weems)

                        It's Jemain O'neil for Hibbert again... in 3-4 years Iggy/Deng will be done and Kyle may end up being a top lottery pick for Rockets. I like Lowry but lets hope he stays healthy, and not too much like his best buddy Alvin williams who played so hard his body broke down for good.

                        Sure they got two lottery picks and added Kyle L (26) and Landry - maybe?? (24) but at the end of the Day if you can't keep players in their prime 25-32 sort of age you will be in the endless cycle of lottery.

                        We have seen so many other teams build themselves since the Raps have fallen out of the playoffs. Orland, Pacers, thunder etc.. and BC to save his job is going for broke in order to maybe land 5th or 6th seed in the next year or two.... That is why I am not in favor of Trading Davis or Derozen. Unless there is some comparable youth coming back.

                        I am not in favor of throwing in the towel on the best defensive player on the team JJ.

                        I know I will get flamed for this post but it is how I feel.
                        All your threads have the same theme so... You know... Why not use the same thread?

                        Besides, a 60 page "The Raptors will suck 4 life" thread would look a lot more powerful than these repeat little 5 pagers.

                        I admire the dedication though. If I was this pessimistic I would be watching darts or curling or spelling bee competitions before hoops.

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                        • This thread is moot because Philly and Memphis will not give up their star-caliber players for any combination of poo-poo players the OP listed.

                          Comment


                          • Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
                            Gee wiz....so much negativity.

                            We're one many NBA teams that are BAD...things will get better.

                            Be at peace
                            Hear hear.

                            Be loving and positive, my brothers.
                            Ommm.
                            Ommm.

                            Comment


                            • poo poo players lol

                              Comment


                              • Demar_8756 wrote: View Post
                                yeah man I agree wit u Big chieft Charlz, You can't let go of talent....I dont know why ppl want to throw away JJ, this guy is good defensivily and he got some nice footwork offensively. This guy reminds me of a young Paul Pierce...and clearly do NOT trade DeRozan, that would be the craziest thing to do in the NBA. So many changes happen on this team it makes me wonder if its impossible to just keep the team you have in the NBA.

                                btw JJ has a blackbelet it Judo or something...no wonder this guy is fearless...and he's not fat! u kidding me, u fat!!
                                +1

                                DO NOT TRADE DD - he can definately improve with his work ethic

                                I would keep JJ as a spot starter or 6th man - he has skills, can defend and has IMPROVED his shooting

                                Comment

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