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Kanter's Age?

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  • #16
    Bendit wrote: View Post
    Decent concerns. However, for myself, his motor and willingness to listen & learn (coachable) alongwith the possible negatives you mention and all the other positives makes him an attractive choice. If we were to accept the deficiencies you cite (shot blocking & help D) it's not like this cannot be taught and with Ed Davis who does have these skills on the floor at the same time I think we could live with it for awhile.
    If you read my post you will see I'm asking if anyone has watched enough of him to know. I don't look at is as negatives rather limitations in a players game. I'm not sure how much shot blocking you can teach. This is a department that is usually a natural trait and not something that can me manufactured. I think Davis has some of those naturally but it's not as if he was blocking shots at an alarming pace. Work ethic, good motor and coach-ability are great but i still think we could use an interior force and Kantar doesn't seem to be in that mold. Does the fact he hasn't played in over a year of competitive ball alarm you at all?

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    • #17
      Tim W. wrote: View Post
      With Ed Davis going to be the future starting PF, the Raptors don't need another shotblocker. Ideally, they need a center who is a strong post defender, rebounder, scorer and someone who is good at team defense. That mostly describes Kanter. He isn't a great defender, but from the footage I've seen, he's a good post defender and has the instincts to be, at the very least, a decent help defender.
      You think Ed is enough shot blocking to anchor a defense? I'm high on Kantar as well just don't see him as sure of a thing as others. With that being said I definitely think we need more shot blocking not only from the center position but from the wing. Depending on one guy (averaged 1.03 blocks per game) isn't enough to intimidate any team. Amir and JJ both blocked shots at a more efficient pace then Davis but haven't got any press.

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      • #18
        I think shot blocking is way overrated. If you look at team stats last year, the Boston Celtics had the second worst blocks per game average yet they had one of the best defenses. Yet Washington on the other hand had the best blocks per game average, and had one of the worst defenses.

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        • #19
          planetmars wrote: View Post
          I think shot blocking is way overrated. If you look at team stats last year, the Boston Celtics had the second worst blocks per game average yet they had one of the best defenses. Yet Washington on the other hand had the best blocks per game average, and had one of the worst defenses.
          Often a blocked shot goes to the offensive team or out of bounds and is given back to the offensive team. For that reason I have to agree with you. If you can block shots and intentionally have them end up in your teams' possession then you have a skill that makes a difference.

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          • #20
            RAPresenting wrote: View Post
            If you read my post you will see I'm asking if anyone has watched enough of him to know. Does the fact he hasn't played in over a year of competitive ball alarm you at all?
            Dude, no one has seen him play in over a year cause he hasn't played high level competitive basketaball in 2 years. All the evaluations of him are based on one summer game and a tournament he played in two years ago as a 17-year old. That's it. Now, if you've been scouting him since then and have been trackign him closely maybe you have a pretty good idea about the guy but no one on these boards can fully answer your questions. Go listen to Jim Kelly's interview post-Kanter meeting/workout. Everyone has questions about him.

            There's a lot to recommend Kanter and he might be worth the risks but you are absolutely right to be skeptical of the guy.

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            • #21
              RAPresenting wrote: View Post
              You think Ed is enough shot blocking to anchor a defense? I'm high on Kantar as well just don't see him as sure of a thing as others. With that being said I definitely think we need more shot blocking not only from the center position but from the wing. Depending on one guy (averaged 1.03 blocks per game) isn't enough to intimidate any team. Amir and JJ both blocked shots at a more efficient pace then Davis but haven't got any press.
              As planetmars stated, shotblocking is overrated. It's a nice thing to have, but you can have great defense without shotblocking and a lot of shotblocking with horrible defense. JaVale McGee is a great shotblocker, but not a good defender. And lots of teams have been good defensively without a lot of shotblocking. WHat's far more important than shotblocking is team defense. And I think Kanter can become a good team defender.

              Besides, Davis has the making of an elite defender and a top shotblocker in the league. And I think he and Kanter would compliment each other perfectly.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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              • #22
                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                As planetmars stated, shotblocking is overrated. It's a nice thing to have, but you can have great defense without shotblocking and a lot of shotblocking with horrible defense. JaVale McGee is a great shotblocker, but not a good defender. And lots of teams have been good defensively without a lot of shotblocking. WHat's far more important than shotblocking is team defense. And I think Kanter can become a good team defender.

                Besides, Davis has the making of an elite defender and a top shotblocker in the league. And I think he and Kanter would compliment each other perfectly.
                I agree with some of the comments regarding shot blocking but not entirely. Miami has great perimeter defenders in Wade/James but what also helps there defense is Anthony, Wade and LBJ's abilities to block/alter shots. Boston's D starts with Rondo but KG, Jermaine are more then capable of blocking shots and their defense was miles better with a shot blocking center in Perk. Dwight wins multiple defensive player of the year awards but I guess shot blocking has nothing to do with it right? I'm not saying shot blocking is everything but all the best defending teams have guy(s) who do it at a much better rate then our team.

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                • #23
                  j bean wrote: View Post
                  Often a blocked shot goes to the offensive team or out of bounds and is given back to the offensive team. For that reason I have to agree with you. If you can block shots and intentionally have them end up in your teams' possession then you have a skill that makes a difference.
                  Agree a blocked shot doesn't always translate into a stop BUT it serves it's purpose as protecting the rim, no easy buckets, forces players to release quicker on shots and can start the fast break leading to easy buckets. Not essential if your team has great perimeter D (which we're arguably the worst in the league) but when teams get into the paint it's nice to have someone/multiples who is/are intimidating.

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                  • #24
                    The Raptors don't have to worry about shot blocking - we have Alabi!
                    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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                    • #25
                      RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                      I agree with some of the comments regarding shot blocking but not entirely. Miami has great perimeter defenders in Wade/James but what also helps there defense is Anthony, Wade and LBJ's abilities to block/alter shots. Boston's D starts with Rondo but KG, Jermaine are more then capable of blocking shots and their defense was miles better with a shot blocking center in Perk. Dwight wins multiple defensive player of the year awards but I guess shot blocking has nothing to do with it right? I'm not saying shot blocking is everything but all the best defending teams have guy(s) who do it at a much better rate then our team.
                      Washington was the best shotblocking team in the NBA last season, but one of the worst defensively. Boston was one of the worst shotblocking teams in the league, yet were one of the best defensively. I said it's nice to have, but you don't necessarily need it. Dwight Howard winning multiple Defensive Player of the Year Awards most definitely has something to do with his shotblocking, in part because it's voted on by sportswriters, many of whom put far too much weight on shotblocking. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but he'd be a good defender even if he wasn't nearly the shotblocker he is.

                      Anderson Varejao was the anchor of one of the best defenses, but until this year (in which he didn't even play half of it) he'd never even averaged a block a game, yet last year he made the All-Defensive 2nd team. Give me Varejao over McGee any day of the week.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                      • #26
                        Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        Washington was the best shotblocking team in the NBA last season, but one of the worst defensively. Boston was one of the worst shotblocking teams in the league, yet were one of the best defensively. I said it's nice to have, but you don't necessarily need it. Dwight Howard winning multiple Defensive Player of the Year Awards most definitely has something to do with his shotblocking, in part because it's voted on by sportswriters, many of whom put far too much weight on shotblocking. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but he'd be a good defender even if he wasn't nearly the shotblocker he is.

                        Anderson Varejao was the anchor of one of the best defenses, but until this year (in which he didn't even play half of it) he'd never even averaged a block a game, yet last year he made the All-Defensive 2nd team. Give me Varejao over McGee any day of the week.
                        Top 10 defensive teams (Points against) this year were Boston, Chicago, Milwaukee, Orlando, New Orleans, Miami, Portland, Lakers, Atlanta and Dallas. Of these 10 team which one doesn't have a shot blocking center?

                        Top 10 defensive teams (opponent FG%) this year were Chicago, Boston, Miami, Orlando, Lakers, Milwaukee, Indiana, Dallas, 76ers and Charlotte. Do you see a pattern of shot blocking centers in this group as well?

                        Overrated perhaps but one would argue two very important defensive categories have shot blocking centers involved in their success.

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                        • #27
                          RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                          Top 10 defensive teams (Points against) this year were Boston, Chicago, Milwaukee, Orlando, New Orleans, Miami, Portland, Lakers, Atlanta and Dallas. Of these 10 team which one doesn't have a shot blocking center?

                          Top 10 defensive teams (opponent FG%) this year were Chicago, Boston, Miami, Orlando, Lakers, Milwaukee, Indiana, Dallas, 76ers and Charlotte. Do you see a pattern of shot blocking centers in this group as well?

                          Overrated perhaps but one would argue two very important defensive categories have shot blocking centers involved in their success.
                          Okay, let's look at this the other way. According to Basketball-Reference.com, the 10 worst defensive teams in the league this past season were Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Golden State, Phoenix, Washington, Utah, New York, New Jersey and Sacramento. On those teams were some of the best shotblocking centers in the league, including McGee, Dark Milicic, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson (all four in the top 10), Brook Lopez, Samuel Dalembert, Marcin Gortat, Channing Frye and Ben Wallace.

                          As I said, shotblocking is nice, but it doesn't necessarily make you a good defensive team. The 89-90 Pistons were one of the best defensive teams in the league, and they had Bill Laimbeer as their center, who averaged less than a block a game over his career and was never once one of the leagues better shotblockers.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                          • #28
                            Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            Okay, let's look at this the other way. According to Basketball-Reference.com, the 10 worst defensive teams in the league this past season were Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Golden State, Phoenix, Washington, Utah, New York, New Jersey and Sacramento. On those teams were some of the best shotblocking centers in the league, including McGee, Dark Milicic, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson (all four in the top 10), Brook Lopez, Samuel Dalembert, Marcin Gortat, Channing Frye and Ben Wallace.

                            As I said, shotblocking is nice, but it doesn't necessarily make you a good defensive team. The 89-90 Pistons were one of the best defensive teams in the league, and they had Bill Laimbeer as their center, who averaged less than a block a game over his career and was never once one of the leagues better shotblockers.
                            Different outlooks on life right? Glass half full or half empty? Your arguing your point saying shot blocking is over rated based on 4 players in the top 10 for league blocks on bad defensive overall defensive teams. My point was that all of the top defensive teams in the league have a shot blocking center (and in most cases multiple shot blockers). I think blocking/altering shots is a big part of defense, while your saying it's over rated and isn't necessary.

                            As for the reference to 89-90 that's completely irrelevant to today's game. Hand checking was allowed and was more physical allowing less penetration. Also to compare athlete now and then is down right silly. The size, strength and speed of the players now make the game totally different so not sure how that reference to 89-90 has any value in this discussion.

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                            • #29
                              RAPresenting wrote: View Post
                              Different outlooks on life right? Glass half full or half empty? Your arguing your point saying shot blocking is over rated based on 4 players in the top 10 for league blocks on bad defensive overall defensive teams. My point was that all of the top defensive teams in the league have a shot blocking center (and in most cases multiple shot blockers). I think blocking/altering shots is a big part of defense, while your saying it's over rated and isn't necessary.

                              As for the reference to 89-90 that's completely irrelevant to today's game. Hand checking was allowed and was more physical allowing less penetration. Also to compare athlete now and then is down right silly. The size, strength and speed of the players now make the game totally different so not sure how that reference to 89-90 has any value in this discussion.
                              It's not just based on 4 players in the top 10. It's based on the other teams as well, as well as 25 years, or so, of following and studying the league and of playing the game. Shotblocking is a nice thing to have, but it doesn't necessarily mean good defense, and in fact you can have good defense without shotblocking. The two are not necessarily interconnected, and that was my point.

                              You were trying to prove your point by bringing up incomplete evidence. I was simply saying a closer look at the evidence will tell you that the evidence doesn't seem to indicate exactly what you say it does.

                              As for whether the game in 89-90 has any place in this discussion, well, it's still the NBA. Basketball hasn't changed that much since then. The handchecking rule doesn't make shotblocking more important now than 20 years ago. It helps perimeter players on the offensive end, but then and now you still needed your interior defense to be the last line of defense. And while players are bigger and stronger, that doesn't mean shotblocking is needed anymore. THAT is a silly argument.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                              • #30
                                That wasn't Givony. It was a guy named Chris Denker. And I really know nothing about him, but from what I heard on the podcast, I'm not extremely impressed with him, quite frankly.
                                ???
                                http://www.draftexpress.com/podcast/draftexpress_44.mp3

                                He said he was Givony, the interviewer identified him as Givony
                                Last edited by jbml; Sat Jun 18, 2011, 08:39 AM.

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