enlightenment wrote:
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Three Team Blockbuster Trade Rumor
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I like the idea of getting Gay, but I don't really like this trade.
1) Unless we get Kanter in the draft, the PG and C positions are suddenly absolute crap. The Raps improve the SF position, but weaken 2 other positions to do it. I don't believe for a second that Bayless is a legit starting PG and don't think Knight/Walker will be either.
2) The Raps take on 2 dead-weight contracts of useless players who are not in the future of this franchise, in addition to Gay's highly overpaid contract.
3) The Raps have needed a legit SF for years, but I think this is jumping the gun. Regardless whether Bargnani and/or Calderon stay or go, SF is the last position I would significantly overpay for (in terms of players leaving in trade and salary of the SF coming back) by decimating two other positions, when the team could wait and address the SF position in next year's draft (ie: Barnes, etc..). Keep Bargnani/Calderon or trade them in other deals to improve the team, without taking on massive overpaid contracts. Next season is used to grow and build chemistry, while likely missing the playoffs, then the Raps use next year's sick draft to pick a star SF on a rookie contract.
4) I think this is more wishful thinking from a Pacers fan. They get Mayo, Calderon and Heny, while giving up George and garbage? Jones is a defensive-specialist backup at best and Posey is a $7M third stringer! Indiana would have to give up at least a 1st round pick to Memphis and likely more to Toronto too.
5) I'm not even sure this trade could go through. On ESPN's Trade Machine, it says that Barbosa can't be traded until July 1st. I'm not sure if that date would change if he chose to use his player option or not... does anybody know for sure? This deal is a non-starter if it can't be done until July 1st, because the CBA will be done by then.Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed May 25, 2011, 03:19 PM.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostI like the idea of getting Gay, but I don't really like this trade.
1) Unless we get Kanter in the draft, the PG and C positions are suddenly absolute crap. The Raps improve the SF position, but weaken 2 other positions to do it. I don't believe for a second that Bayless is a legit starting PG and don't think Knight/Walker will be either.
2) The Raps take on 2 dead-weight contracts of useless players who are not in the future of this franchise, in addition to Gay's highly overpaid contract.
3) The Raps have needed a legit SF for years, but I think this is jumping the gun. Regardless whether Bargnani and/or Calderon stay or go, SF is the last position I would significantly overpay for (in terms of players leaving in trade and salary of the SF coming back) by decimating two other positions, when the team could wait and address the SF position in next year's draft (ie: Barnes, etc..). Keep Bargnani/Calderon or trade them in other deals to improve the team, without taking on massive overpaid contracts. Next season is used to grow and build chemistry, while likely missing the playoffs, then the Raps use next year's sick draft to pick a star SF on a rookie contract.
2) Dahntay Jones is hardly dead weight. I'd rather him coming off the bench than Money Weems. Jones actually plays tenacious D and at 6-6 could play both the 2 and 3.
3)How are we decimating two positions? Yes I agree giving up Calderon is a big move, but it's not like Bargnani was the greatest Center in the world. Gay will make up for the loss of scoring/ shooting and probably grab more rebounds than Bargs anyway.
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joey_hesketh wrote: View Post1) I thinK Bayless will do just fine given the proper minutes and freedom.
2) Dahntay Jones is hardly dead weight. I'd rather him coming off the bench than Money Weems. Jones actually plays tenacious D and at 6-6 could play both the 2 and 3.
3)How are we decimating two positions? Yes I agree giving up Calderon is a big move, but it's not like Bargnani was the greatest Center in the world. Gay will make up for the loss of scoring/ shooting and probably grab more rebounds than Bargs anyway.
2) Any argument that starts and ends with "but he's slightly better than Weems" is a weak argument, IMO lol I just think Jones is a backup at best that is not in the future plans for the Raps. Posey is useless waste of $7M for a season.
3) I just meant that you fill one hole by creating 2 new holes. If I was going to trade Bargnani, Calderon and Barbosa (bonus with an expiring contract), I think I'd like to get more back than just 1 starter, 1 borderline backup and 1 albatross contract (unless the Raps get cash to cover buyout or they have another deal in place to get rid of his expiring contract), especially when the 1 decent player coming back is so grossly overpaid and plays a position that next year's draft will be rich in.Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed May 25, 2011, 03:31 PM.
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JayElZee wrote: View PostIndiana makes out like a bandit in this trade. They really give up nothing and get back Calderon and Mayo.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post1) Unless we get Kanter in the draft, the PG and C positions are suddenly absolute crap. The Raps improve the SF position, but weaken 2 other positions to do it. I don't believe for a second that Bayless is a legit starting PG and don't think Knight/Walker will be either.
CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post2) The Raps take on 2 dead-weight contracts of useless players who are not in the future of this franchise, in addition to Gay's highly overpaid contract.
CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post3) The Raps have needed a legit SF for years, but I think this is jumping the gun. Regardless whether Bargnani and/or Calderon stay or go, SF is the last position I would significantly overpay for (in terms of players leaving in trade and salary of the SF coming back) by decimating two other positions, when the team could wait and address the SF position in next year's draft (ie: Barnes, etc..). Keep Bargnani/Calderon or trade them in other deals to improve the team, without taking on massive overpaid contracts. Next season is used to grow and build chemistry, while likely missing the playoffs, then the Raps use next year's sick draft to pick a star SF on a rookie contract.
CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post4) I think this is more wishful thinking from a Pacers fan. They get Mayo, Calderon and Heny, while giving up George and garbage? Jones is a defensive-specialist backup at best and Posey is a $7M third stringer! Indiana would have to give up at least a 1st round pick to Memphis and likely more to Toronto too.
CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post5) I'm not even sure this trade could go through. On ESPN's Trade Machine, it says that Barbosa can't be traded until July 1st. I'm not sure if that date would change if he chose to use his player option or not... does anybody know for sure? This deal is a non-starter if it can't be done until July 1st, because the CBA will be done by then.
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It seems Dahntay is always hurt, and I'm trying to figure out if he can shoot the three or not... his stats are confusing and contradicting... 11-17(0.647) in 08-09 (79games) , 4-32 (0.125) in 09-10 (76 games), then 14-39 (0.359) last season (45 games),
Then all the way back in 04-05 he hit 23-60 (0.383) in only 52 games on 12 MPG.
Seriously does anyone know if he has the ability to shoot the three right now or not?The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!
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From a Raps perspective, this is one of those trades you do every time imo. Gay is a young, skilled, controllable player, where health is very likely to be a non-issue. Plus you get to ship out Bargnani. I hope this comes to fruition.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostI like the idea of getting Gay, but I don't really like this trade.
1) Unless we get Kanter in the draft, the PG and C positions are suddenly absolute crap. The Raps improve the SF position, but weaken 2 other positions to do it. I don't believe for a second that Bayless is a legit starting PG and don't think Knight/Walker will be either.
2) The Raps take on 2 dead-weight contracts of useless players who are not in the future of this franchise, in addition to Gay's highly overpaid contract.
3) The Raps have needed a legit SF for years, but I think this is jumping the gun. Regardless whether Bargnani and/or Calderon stay or go, SF is the last position I would significantly overpay for (in terms of players leaving in trade and salary of the SF coming back) by decimating two other positions, when the team could wait and address the SF position in next year's draft (ie: Barnes, etc..). Keep Bargnani/Calderon or trade them in other deals to improve the team, without taking on massive overpaid contracts. Next season is used to grow and build chemistry, while likely missing the playoffs, then the Raps use next year's sick draft to pick a star SF on a rookie contract.
4) I think this is more wishful thinking from a Pacers fan. They get Mayo, Calderon and Heny, while giving up George and garbage? Jones is a defensive-specialist backup at best and Posey is a $7M third stringer! Indiana would have to give up at least a 1st round pick to Memphis and likely more to Toronto too.
5) I'm not even sure this trade could go through. On ESPN's Trade Machine, it says that Barbosa can't be traded until July 1st. I'm not sure if that date would change if he chose to use his player option or not... does anybody know for sure? This deal is a non-starter if it can't be done until July 1st, because the CBA will be done by then.
As for it decimating the Raptors at center and PG, who cares? Were they doing that well when they had players at those positions? No. So why not grab a far more talented player now, and work out the other positions later. Besides, the Raptors are going to either draft a PG or center in the draft, anyway, so it's likely they'll have a need at only one position. And they can fill it up with a free agent or rookie next season.
When you can do a trade where you end up with the best player, a probable future All-Star, and you're giving up as little as the Raptors are, you do it. Period. You'd be foolish, otherwise.
Yes, Gay is overpaid, but so are Bargnani (for the role he should play) and Calderon. At least Gay is a productive player who plays defense and has a positive effect on the team when he's on the court. I'd rather pay Gay $16 million than Bargnani $9 million, quite frankly, because you're going to be able to win with Gay.
I'm wouldn't be a proponent of trading any of DeRozan, Amir, Davis or the 5th pick for Gay, but everything else is fair game and expendable, anyway. Some people are questioning whether the Raptors can get ANYTHING of value for Bargnani and Calderon, and if they can do this, they get a 24 year old, highly athletic scorer who is also a very good defender.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post1) We agree to disagree. I think the Raps would still need to find a starting PG of the future (not that Calderon is it, either, to be fair)
2) Any argument that starts and ends with "but he's slightly better than Weems" is a weak argument, IMO lol I just think Jones is a backup at best that is not in the future plans for the Raps. Posey is useless waste of $7M for a season.
3) I just meant that you fill one hole by creating 2 new holes. If I was going to trade Bargnani, Calderon and Barbosa (bonus with an expiring contract), I think I'd like to get more back than just 1 starter, 1 borderline backup and 1 albatross contract (unless the Raps get cash to cover buyout or they have another deal in place to get rid of his expiring contract), especially when the 1 decent player coming back is so grossly overpaid and plays a position that next year's draft will be rich in.
2) I didn't start my argument with "He's slightly better than Weems." ... A backup at best..? Sorry, I didn't know we were on the market for someone 6'-6" to start ... thought we already had Demar and potentially Gay. We're not looking for starters at the 2-3. We NEED backup guys. So whats wrong with getting Backup guys?
3)We already had holes at 1-3-5 I thought. We didn't create new ones. They were very much existing.
Yes, perhaps we did give up Decent players at both positions .. but to acquire a VERY good player (not 'decent' as you put it. Gay is borderline All-Star.) at another one of our holes.
I don't think losing Bargnani is going to set us back a whole lot; nor will losing Calderon.
But like I said, this trade makes us a better team then we were before, and thats all that counts in a rebuild. In my opinion.
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enlightenment wrote: View PostIt seems Dahntay is always hurt, and I'm trying to figure out if he can shoot the three or not... his stats are confusing and contradicting... 11-17(0.647) in 08-09 (79games) , 4-32 (0.125) in 09-10 (76 games), then 14-39 (0.359) last season (45 games),
Then all the way back in 04-05 he hit 23-60 (0.383) in only 52 games on 12 MPG.
Seriously does anyone know if he has the ability to shoot the three right now or not?
And no, he's not a good three point shooter, hence why he doesn't take very many.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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