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Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

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  • #31
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    No, he wanted to be the Executive Coach, and Sam said, stay out of my job.

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    • #32
      Firing Sam was not a mistake, just badly timed. The man was a terrible coach. His successors haven't been any better, sadly.

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      • #33
        slaw wrote: View Post
        Oh, stop with the hindsight nonsense.... If you can't use hindsight you can never evaluate anyone. Plus, there were plenty of us who thought the Turkoglu signing was stupid. The Orlando GM and SVG were telling everyone the guy was lazy and didn't care and that Portland dodged a bullet. None of that was hindsight.

        Interesting, what team does he play for now?

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        • #34
          hateslosing wrote: View Post
          Trying to build "Phoenix east". That period where all the players he signed were for offensive purposes and all we wanted to do was score set us back a lot and started this no defense culture that we have now. If Colangelo had been thinking defense and accountability from the beginning a lot of the problems we've seen would have never happened and Sam Mitchell, who is still the best coach we've had, might still be running the team.
          I saw an article somewhere yesterday talking about Phoenix now Toronto West.

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          • #35
            Nilanka wrote: View Post
            But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

            There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
            Absolutely, but just would not say it as a statement unless I had some proof of it. Could have been that Bosh whom was the face of the franchise at that time wanted him gone for all we know.
            Last edited by Mediumcore; Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:02 PM.

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            • #36
              I have to say the JO signing was a move I really liked at the time. I thought he would have been a perfect fit next to Bosh and for the most part I felt they played pretty well next to each other for the limited time of the pairing. I don't have stats to back me up, but I felt that the surrounding cast of Parker, Calderon etc... had down years with perimeter shooting which is why the team wasn't able to exploit their strength on the inside. May not have worked out well, but I thought that was a smart move at the time.

              But hey, atleast we were able to move JO's contract to Miami and help them clear enough cap space to eventually sign their big 3. I feel so happy about their success that I could just barf.

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              • #37
                Here's what Colangelo had when he signed.

                1. A star on a rookie contract (Bosh)
                2. A 1st overall draft pick.
                3. A weak division.
                4. Tonnes of cap space.
                5. 2 players who played in rookie challenge.

                That was then and here we are now. The second worst team in the league with only 2 wins in the playoffs to show for in the last 7 years.

                *Sigh*
                Last edited by hotfuzz; Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:18 PM.
                "Stay steamy"

                - Kobe

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                • #38
                  His biggest error? Great question. I think it was promoting Jay Triano to head coach. I understand why he made the decision, I just think it was the worst thing for this franchise at that pivotal point. It seems in hindsight to have been a delay tactic to wait for his guy to become available. The problem is, i'm not sure he ever had "a guy" in mind. Casey came highly recommended, so he just went with that.

                  I will never fault him for the personnel moves he's made. The players, while flawed, were much hyped at the time (and not just by Toronto media). The real flaw is his failure to establish a culture through his coach. For the record I like Casey and hope he sticks around. Just having to go through Jay Triano for so long was so bad...the worst IMHO.
                  Welp, that sucked.

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                  • #39
                    This may not qualify as a single error, but to me the biggest issue has been an excessive amount of roster turnaround that has produced zero continuity/growth and unearthed zero consistent role players. You would think that after 7 years of constantly bringing in new faces, a few would have stuck (outside of Amir Johnson, who is obviously overpayed). But after 7 years of trading away second round picks, taking flyers on guys like Moon and trading for high draft picks that had fallen out of favour with other teams, there is literally nothing to show for it. I can forgive the draft picks, I can forgive the deals that didn't pan out, I can forgive not fully committing to the rebuild, but how you can turn the roster over year after year and not find a few players to keep long-term is a bit mind-blowing. It just speaks to how fractured and uncertain the team's direction has been year after year, how BC has been reacting instead of planning ahead.

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                    • #40
                      Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                      This may not qualify as a single error, but to me the biggest issue has been an excessive amount of roster turnaround that has produced zero continuity/growth and unearthed zero consistent role players. You would think that after 7 years of constantly bringing in new faces, a few would have stuck (outside of Amir Johnson, who is obviously overpayed). But after 7 years of trading away second round picks, taking flyers on guys like Moon and trading for high draft picks that had fallen out of favour with other teams, there is literally nothing to show for it. I can forgive the draft picks, I can forgive the deals that didn't pan out, I can forgive not fully committing to the rebuild, but how you can turn the roster over year after year and not find a few players to keep long-term is a bit mind-blowing. It just speaks to how fractured and uncertain the team's direction has been year after year, how BC has been reacting instead of planning ahead.
                      Agreed.

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                      • #41
                        Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                        This may not qualify as a single error, but to me the biggest issue has been an excessive amount of roster turnaround that has produced zero continuity/growth and unearthed zero consistent role players. You would think that after 7 years of constantly bringing in new faces, a few would have stuck (outside of Amir Johnson, who is obviously overpayed). But after 7 years of trading away second round picks, taking flyers on guys like Moon and trading for high draft picks that had fallen out of favour with other teams, there is literally nothing to show for it. I can forgive the draft picks, I can forgive the deals that didn't pan out, I can forgive not fully committing to the rebuild, but how you can turn the roster over year after year and not find a few players to keep long-term is a bit mind-blowing. It just speaks to how fractured and uncertain the team's direction has been year after year, how BC has been reacting instead of planning ahead.
                        Yep he's been in panic his entire tenure. Seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
                        Welp, that sucked.

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                        • #42
                          hotfuzz wrote: View Post
                          Here's what Colangelo had when he signed.

                          1. A star on a rookie contract (Bosh)
                          2. A 1st overall draft pick.
                          3. A weak division.
                          4. Tonnes of cap space.
                          5. 2 players who played in rookie challenge.

                          That was then and here we are now. The second worst team in the league with only 2 wins in the playoffs to show for in the last 7 years.

                          *Sigh*
                          +1 Sometimes when I think I'm being too hard on BC, I remind myself of exactly this. How many lifetimes would it take any other GM to screw up a situation that starts this way, the way BC has?!

                          For me it was never 1 single move that pinpoints BC's idiocy, its been the entirety of his 7 year stretch. *IF* I had to choose one though (and I guess this still technically isn't just one), it would be Bargs and all Bargs related moves as a whole. #1 pick in a weak draft? Take a soft jump shooter that plays the same position as your allstar instead of trying to trade down or package with another guy for a wing to compliment Bosh. Trade for JO? Compensating for Bargnani's crappy defense and protect Bosh. Bargnani up for an extension? Bid against himself. and an overbid at that. Now finally, holding onto Bargs until his value is at an all time low and splintering this team.

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                          • #43
                            Trading for Jermaine Oneal was when BC started making his shitbed. The franchise was at a crossroads, had to make a move and it was the wrong move, in hindsight. Even going in there was a very high risk, with a very low reward. Everyone knew J.O. wasn't going to be the same guy he was before his knees went, despite how healthy he said he was.

                            Anyways, I guess my main reason is based on where this team would be at if we had drafted any of the listed players instead of trading our pick for J.O. (brace yourself):

                            -Roy Hibbert
                            -Javaale McGee
                            -Ryan Anderson
                            -Serge Ibaka
                            -Nic Batum

                            Not saying any of these players would have dramatically changed the course of things, but that was a tough pick to give up for what we got. We even traded away our second rounder in the same draft (ended up being Goran Dragic). ouch, hindsight is a b****!
                            Last edited by IROR; Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:19 PM.

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                            • #44
                              KHD wrote: View Post
                              Firing Sam was not a mistake, just badly timed. The man was a terrible coach. His successors haven't been any better, sadly.
                              Sam was a fine coach. You fans got all emotional when you heard him and Andrea were not on speaking terms due to Andrea's care free attitude. You wanted to stand up for your 7 footer and get him a players coach in Triano that would comfort him. You guys also wanted to play Kapono more, and Sam felt he was defensive liability and played him less. Sam figured out how to use the pieces most effectively. Triano took a much better team and failed miserably by using Bosh less thinking that was the way to retain the big man.

                              It was a huge disaster when Sam left the team, each season got worse. COY chased out by realgm fans because they thought their 7 foot hero was 30/15 centre.
                              Last edited by BasketballCrush; Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:24 PM.

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                              • #45
                                There have been many mistakes, but perhaps the biggest was drafting Bargnani over Aldridge.

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