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  • Tim W. wrote: View Post
    They would draw Amir out to the weakside and force Bargnani to be the defender. That's EXACTLY what I keep talking about. If Dwight Howard was on the floor, teams would STILL do that.

    .
    LOOOOLL, They did not need to draw Amir to any side. They just put Ilyasova on him to spank him all night long and that is your good defender with his positive impact

    Check out minute 5 of the 4th quarter where Ilyasova sends Amir flying toward Raptor Bench with a slight head fake to get an easy layup under the basket!!

    But again, you do not see that or how DD was beaten by his man all the time and ... because all you care about is Bashing AB.

    Our defensive system is flawed and this is why you see guys like Jack and Beli who sucked in defense last year are able to get solid minutes in one of the best defensive teams in the NBA now.

    Our system is flawed, our players are not complementry to each other and hence they all get expose, some more than others.

    Comment


    • WJF wrote: View Post
      Why has nobody mentioned the good job Andrea did when he switched out on Delfino a few times, or how when Bogut scored on him in overtime not one player even showed a double team? How about how terrible Amir was on the perimeter fouling Ilyasova on a three pointer, falling for shot fake after shot fake and giving up numerous blow-bys.

      We all know Andrea has work to do on defense, but we can't blame every loss on him alone, we have major deficiencies all over the floor.
      Nicely Said .
      This is because some fans here have personal problems with AB.

      For all hose delusional fans who say Amir is better player than AB because he grabs few more rebound and ...
      Put AB and Amir on a trading block and see which one has more return value . You can not even compare the 2 together !!

      Comment


      • You're the delusional one, Raptor4ever.

        Comment


        • WhatWhat wrote: View Post
          You're the delusional one, Raptor4ever.
          LOOOLL, Righttttttttttt.

          Our defensive system is great and comparable to the best in the league.
          AB is the ONLY problem that this team has and with his departure we will be as good as celtics in defence.
          Amir Johnson has unlimited potential and is the 2nd comming of Pippen.
          BC has gathered a young with talent potentials that can only be matched by OKC.
          This team is on its way to a 50 win season in year or two if ONLY AB and Jose are traded away and

          the last but not the least:

          Bayless is an ALL-STAR PG that the future of Raptors should be build around.

          ......... No, My friend WhatWhat, you are a delusional One.

          Are you one of those who voted on the begining of the season that Raptors will make the Play Offs

          Comment


          • WJF wrote: View Post
            Why has nobody mentioned the good job Andrea did when he switched out on Delfino a few times, or how when Bogut scored on him in overtime not one player even showed a double team? How about how terrible Amir was on the perimeter fouling Ilyasova on a three pointer, falling for shot fake after shot fake and giving up numerous blow-bys.

            We all know Andrea has work to do on defense, but we can't blame every loss on him alone, we have major deficiencies all over the floor.
            Yes, Amir made an incredibly stupid move by fouling the three point shooter, and made a couple of other mental errors, as well. Why don't we jump on Amir? Well, maybe because he was the best player on the court for the Raptors on both ends for the majority of the game. It wasn't just the 24 points. It was the 12 rebounds and the overall good defense he played. It was because he put up a consistent effort every minute he was on the floor.

            Jeez!

            No player has a perfect game, but one of the more common statements for people trying to defend Bargnani often seems to be, "Well, look at the play this guy did! That was bad, too!". No player on the Raptors is extraordinarily good, and sometimes shots fall and sometimes they don't, but Bargnani was absolutely horrible last night and his play was completely indefensible.

            Am I blaming him alone? Obviously not. The team is simply not very good, so they're going to struggle to win ANY game, but did you even watch him in the first quarter? I was actually shocked by what I saw from him on the defensive end, and I obviously expect bad defense from him. And he wasn't all that much better for the rest of the game.
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            • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
              LOOOOLL, They did not need to draw Amir to any side. They just put Ilyasova on him to spank him all night long and that is your good defender with his positive impact

              Check out minute 5 of the 4th quarter where Ilyasova sends Amir flying toward Raptor Bench with a slight head fake to get an easy layup under the basket!!

              But again, you do not see that or how DD was beaten by his man all the time and ... because all you care about is Bashing AB.

              Our defensive system is flawed and this is why you see guys like Jack and Beli who sucked in defense last year are able to get solid minutes in one of the best defensive teams in the NBA now.

              Our system is flawed, our players are not complementry to each other and hence they all get expose, some more than others.
              So are you honestly saying that Bargnani played at least as well on defense as Amir, last night? Or are you just trying to distract everyone?

              No one played stellar defense last night, but Amir and DeRozan, as well most of the other Raptor players at least put up a good effort for most of the game. In the first quarter, there were three defensive plays in a row that I couldn't believe. The first one, Bargnani literally turned his back on a man driving to the basket, when he was the closest guy to help. The next play, Bogut actually boxes him out to get an offensive board, and the next play, Bargnani is standing at the foul line while Bogut, his man and with no one around, gets a pass and lays it up.

              You guys think I actually look for bad plays that Bargnani does, but I don't. I just watch the game and see them.

              And I was one of the people last year that was saying over and over that Belinelli was one of the better defenders for the Raptors, and was sorry to see him go, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that he's getting lots of minutes with the Hornets. Actually, at one point I suggested starting him for the rest of the season.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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              • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                LOOOLL, Right. Our defensive system is great and comparable to the best in the league.
                AB is the ONLY problem that this team has and with his departure we will be as good as celtics in defence.

                Amir Johnson has unlimited potential and is the 2nd comming of Pippen.
                BC has gathered a young with talent potentials that can only be matched by OKC.

                This team is on its way to a 50 win season in year or two if ONLY AB and Jose are traded away and the last but not the least:

                Bayless is an ALL-STAR PG that the future of Raptors should be build around.

                ......... No, My friend WhatWhat, you are a delusional fan , Are you one of those who voted on the begining of the season that Raptors will make the Play Offs
                No, our the defense is the worst in the league again, and Bargnani and Calderon are the primary reasons for it. (Moreso Calderon last year, Bargnani by a mile this year.)

                Amir is a better player than Bargnani, because he's not a complete liability on the defensive end. And without a post move, as some people are ridiculously saying, he put up more points than Bargnani on less than half the shots, and re-aggravated his back while doing it, and got 4 times as many boards. Ilyasova lit him up, but unlike Bargnani, that often isn't the case.

                If AB and Jose are moved, the team would start playing the game the right way again, like in the beginning of the season, and have passable defense again.

                Bayless will not be an All-Star, I have never said or thought that. He's can be our starting PG though. A good starting PG, but for whatever reason, few people are willing to throw him into the fire to confirm it. I pretty sure that I'm in the minority regarding Bayless, but I already think that he should be starting over Calderon and that we should be evaluating him while he's doing so. So then maybe we could look off Irving (whom we may even have an high enough pick for), and draft T.Jones or even someone like Valanciunas instead.

                I never thought that they make the playoffs going into the season. I pegged them at like 27 wins.

                If you were a true fan of Bargnani, you wouldn't be blaming other people and the system for his shitty play, you'd be calling him out like most of us are, because quite frankly he's much, much better than this.

                Comment


                • WhatWhat wrote: View Post
                  Amir is a better player than Bargnani And without a post move, as some people are ridiculously saying, he put up more points than Bargnani on less than half the shots,
                  .
                  LOOOL, and how many games did that happen ??

                  As I said, I am willing to bet anything that almost 95% of thr GM's in this league rather have AB and his contract over Amir and his contract. The fact that you make this argument that Amir is a better player than AB just further proves my points.

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                  • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    So are you honestly saying that Bargnani played at least as well on defense as Amir, last night? Or are you just trying to distract everyone?
                    LOOOL, no, I think AB has problems on defence and they are shown more because of the system that is in place.

                    At the same time, I do think that Amir was not that great on defence as well last night and Ilyasova got everything that he wanted all night long, be it under the basket, 15 feet from the basket or at 3 point line from Amir.

                    Our teams's problem is not one or two player and great example are Beli and Jack that just 4 month ago people here thought they could not play defence worth a Lick.

                    Amir Jonhson is a decent player but he is no where close to the class of AB especially on the offence. The kid is only 23 but he has been in the league for 5 years without perfecting even ONE Post move !!! Does that sound like this is his ceiling !!

                    Comment


                    • Amir

                      I like Amir. He's only 23 and is showing significant growth. He does have post moves, are you kidding saying he doesn't? He's hitting spot-up jumpers and converting free-throws. I expect he'll consistently put up at least 12/8 for the next couple years, maybe even more.

                      But you know what? Even when he has a good game like last night I never get the sense that he IMPACTS the game. Double teams don't (and likely never will) come his way, defenses don't breakdown because of him, momentum doesn't shift because of him. I think his ceiling isn't very far away. Comparisons between him and Andrea, I think, are moot because Bargnani can change the game (and no rebuttals - "yeah, change it for the worse", please) - it's comparing apples and oranges. However, Amir clearly should be a part of the team going forward. He is not that far away from being a legitimate starting PF and, even if his development stagnates where it is, he'll be a solid first big off the bench (once Davis develops into a starter). Whether Bargnani should be part of the team moving forward is an entirely different question than whether he's a better player than Amir Johnson.

                      Oh, and in terms of comparing the two of them w/r/t their defense last night, I would say Amir TRIED alot harder than Bargnani, but he certainly wasn't any more successful (with the exception of a couple of bright spots towards the end). Ed Davis already seems to have better defensive instincts and habits than Amir.

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                      • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                        LOOOL, and how many games did that happen ??

                        As I said, I am willing to bet anything that almost 95% of thr GM's in this league rather have AB and his contract over Amir and his contract. The fact that you make this argument that Amir is a better player than AB just further proves my points.
                        Fallacious argument, but I hope you're right though, because it'll definitely make his trade value high.

                        Comment


                        • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                          LOOOL, no, I think AB has problems on defence and they are shown more because of the system that is in place.

                          At the same time, I do think that Amir was not that great on defence as well last night and Ilyasova got everything that he wanted all night long, be it under the basket, 15 feet from the basket or at 3 point line from Amir.

                          Our teams's problem is not one or two player and great example are Beli and Jack that just 4 month ago people here thought they could not play defence worth a Lick.

                          Amir Jonhson is a decent player but he is no where close to the class of AB especially on the offence. The kid is only 23 but he has been in the league for 5 years without perfecting even ONE Post move !!! Does that sound like this is his ceiling !!
                          Ilyasova had a great shooting night. Sometimes that happens and there's not much you can do about it. Amir didn't play great defense against him on the perimeter, but Ilyasova only made two shots in the paint. The rest were jumpshots, many coming off dribble drives from others that drew Amir, or whoever was defending him, to help.

                          And I already said that I was adamant last year that Belinelli was a good defensive player, so obviously the "system" didn't fool me. I also defended Bosh as a defensive player last year, saying that he was an adequate defensive player and much better than Bargnani. Now he's on Miami and the team plays good defense. Some people may be fooled by the overall quality of the team on defense when judging players, but it's pretty clear I'm not. If you know what to look for, it's not hard to figure out who can play defense and who can't. Bargnani, no matter where he plays, will always be a poor defender. I don't know if you watched the game on TV, but at one point in overtime, Jack Armstrong even commented that the Bucks were trying to isolate Bargnani on defense. Not Calderon, not DeRozan, but Bargnani.

                          And if Amir doesn't have even one post move, how is it he was able to score so many times last night despite the fact that about a third of his points came off giving him the ball in the post and letting him score on his man?

                          Amir is a better defensive player, a better rebounder, a much more efficient offensive player, and gives a much more consistent effort. Plus, he has a more positive effect on the team when he is on the court. Bargnani is a better scorer. If you think that Bargnani is a better player than Amir right now, you put WAY too much weight on scoring.

                          And Bargnani has been in the league 4.5 years and he's still a bad rebounder and defender. Does THAT sound like his ceiling? Of do you consider someone's ceiling to only be related to offense?
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                          • coastal wrote: View Post
                            I like Amir. He's only 23 and is showing significant growth. He does have post moves, are you kidding saying he doesn't? He's hitting spot-up jumpers and converting free-throws. I expect he'll consistently put up at least 12/8 for the next couple years, maybe even more.

                            But you know what? Even when he has a good game like last night I never get the sense that he IMPACTS the game. Double teams don't (and likely never will) come his way, defenses don't breakdown because of him, momentum doesn't shift because of him. I think his ceiling isn't very far away. Comparisons between him and Andrea, I think, are moot because Bargnani can change the game (and no rebuttals - "yeah, change it for the worse", please) - it's comparing apples and oranges. However, Amir clearly should be a part of the team going forward. He is not that far away from being a legitimate starting PF and, even if his development stagnates where it is, he'll be a solid first big off the bench (once Davis develops into a starter). Whether Bargnani should be part of the team moving forward is an entirely different question than whether he's a better player than Amir Johnson.

                            Oh, and in terms of comparing the two of them w/r/t their defense last night, I would say Amir TRIED alot harder than Bargnani, but he certainly wasn't any more successful (with the exception of a couple of bright spots towards the end). Ed Davis already seems to have better defensive instincts and habits than Amir.
                            Amir has the most positive impact on the team of any regular rotation player on the Raptors. He's probably never going to be an All-Star because he doesn't really do much that is spectacular, but the simple fact is that the team plays better when he's on the court, and worse when he is off it. In the end, that's all that matters.
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                            • Frankthetank wrote: View Post
                              ryan andersen is a good player but is 6:9 and doesn't have a handle .
                              What does bargnani do better than Ryan Andersen? I'm pretty sure if andersen were given the same playing time and shot attempts, then his numbers would probably be better! I am most definitely not saying trade for Ryan andersen, but am simply pointing out Similarities and Potential!

                              they are both big men who can shoot the three, and that's about it! I don't know if you've ever watched Bargnani try and dribble and do a spin move? but i'm pretty sure ryan andersen can do it the same way. I'm pretty sure my girlfriend can do the same move too!
                              Last edited by JalenRose5; Sat Jan 29, 2011, 04:10 PM. Reason: forgot something

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                              • Turning his back to the ball/play on defense, not boxing out his man and not hard fouling (he is averse to fouling...2 again last night and 1 may have been offensive) or physically moving his man out has nothing to do with a "defensive system". I am now thinking that Bargs is maybe pushing for a trade with his play.

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