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  • #61
    I'm actually excited to see Vasquez and JV n Amir play together. Lowry is playing great basketball now. With Vasquez here IMO we should keep lowry and have that 2 PG punch. Keep building MU. Let tanknation think we are tanking. Raptors looked like a team last night.

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    • #62
      redyraptor wrote: View Post
      I'm actually excited to see Vasquez and JV n Amir play together. Lowry is playing great basketball now. With Vasquez here IMO we should keep lowry and have that 2 PG punch. Keep building MU. Let tanknation think we are tanking. Raptors looked like a team last night.
      The raptors have 5 point guards, one of which has great value as a trade asset. Lowry will be moved along with at least Amir or DD, I'm figuring MU is due for a package deal involving multiple teams. His mandate it championships and this team isn't even close. More moves coming, tank nation lives on.
      Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
      Because its 2015

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      • #63
        Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
        The raptors have 5 point guards, one of which has great value as a trade asset. Lowry will be moved along with at least Amir or DD, I'm figuring MU is due for a package deal involving multiple teams. His mandate it championships and this team isn't even close. More moves coming, tank nation lives on.
        Pretty sure we are going to cut one of those 5. Once the deal goes through, we are over the roster limit. Buycks is likely gone but I'd prefer to cut Augustin.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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        • #64
          As constructed - a playoff team.
          With the very likely follow-up trades - TANK
          The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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          • #65
            Axel wrote: View Post
            Pretty sure we are going to cut one of those 5. Once the deal goes through, we are over the roster limit. Buycks is likely gone but I'd prefer to cut Augustin.
            Personally I hope Austin Daye gets cut. I honestly think he has the least value on the team.

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            • #66
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              Personally I hope Austin Daye gets cut.
              Agreed, but I doubt he will. The bright side is that Augustin could be included as a cheap vet PG (likely 3rd string) in one of the future deals and it is quite possible that Buycks would still be available later in the season.

              Stone shouldn't even be in the discussion imo.
              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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              • #67
                Axel wrote: View Post
                Pretty sure we are going to cut one of those 5. Once the deal goes through, we are over the roster limit. Buycks is likely gone but I'd prefer to cut Augustin.
                Agreed. But Augustin is more tradeable in a package deal. Buycks will likely get picked up by someone looking for a project.
                Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
                Because its 2015

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                • #68
                  Axel wrote: View Post
                  Agreed, but I doubt he will. The bright side is that Augustin could be included as a cheap vet PG (likely 3rd string) in one of the future deals and it is quite possible that Buycks would still be available later in the season.

                  Stone shouldn't even be in the discussion imo.
                  Welll I think it'll come down to Buycks or Daye. And I think a young PG making his first stint in the league has more value, even as a final piece of filler, than a soft combo forward who seems like he's on his way out. I mean, if they cut both, I'd be more confident Buycks will be picked up by another NBA team than Daye.

                  Not exactly a make or break decision anyway.

                  *I'd like to add to this that I literally had forgotten Austin Daye is on the Raptors roster.
                  Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Dec 9, 2013, 02:54 PM.

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                  • #69

                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                    • #70
                      white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                      Welll I think it'll come down to Buycks or Daye. And I think a young PG making his first stint in the league has more value, even as a final piece of filler, than a soft combo forward who seems like he's on his way out. I mean, if they cut both, I'd be more confident Buycks will be picked up by another NBA team than Daye.

                      Not exactly a make or break decision anyway.

                      *I'd like to add to this that I literally had forgotten Austin Daye is on the Raptors roster.
                      haha I'll admit I forgot about Daye as well, but it still seems very unlikely to carry 5 PGs, even if 2 are dealt.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                      • #71
                        Axel wrote: View Post
                        haha I'll admit I forgot about Daye as well, but it still seems very unlikely to carry 5 PGs, even if 2 are dealt.
                        But it would be worth it just for the ability to joke about Casey rolling out an all PG small ball lineup.

                        Picturing post-game now:
                        Casey: "We needed to move the ball, and we needed quickness on D"
                        Reporter: "You lost the rebounding battle 68-21. You didn't score a single point in the paint. What was your thought process?"
                        Casey: "We thought that we would make up for the lack of scoring inside with better outside shooting, but guys missed shots. And we hoped that by being quick on D, we'd force them into long jumpers with long rebounds so we wouldn't have to fight under the glass"

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                        • #72
                          Doug Smith like a defiant dictator telling the rebels about to topple his palace to, "Get the eff outta here!"

                          I’m not saying for sure it is better and there are still many issues to be addressed but to think Masai was giving up on this season with this trade is ridiculous, to me.

                          It could very well turn out that they struggle but I don’t think so, I think they have a more traditional offence now that there is one less ball-stopper on the floor, I think they are better at the backup point guard spot, I think this might free up more opportunities for Valanciunas and Amir.

                          Sometimes, really, less is more.

                          And I know Masai. He is not of the mind of playing to lose, it goes against a lot of what he stands for and believes in, he will tweak and make more bold moves and know that everything is a gamble and that some will fail.

                          This whole nebulous “tank” thing makes me, frankly, sick. First off, it takes years to truly tear at team down, it doesn’t happen in one or ever two transactions. It’s a fake word that over-simplifies a process; a trite expression invented for no other reason than to irk me, I bet.

                          And if you don’t have those years, or that predilection of getting truly horrible, you make trades simply to further your cause for what you want the roster to become and see how it works out.

                          Masai, with this deal, has rid himself of his most troubling contract and, in some ways, made his team better. It’s a step, one step in a long process of changing things.

                          http://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_s..._blessing.html

                          You see where I think I have the fundamental difference with Dougie is this:

                          The Raptors are not a good team - no way, no how. Sure, they might compete for a playoff spot in a historically bad Eastern Conference but that does not make a good team. If anything it reinforces the notions of a horrible franchise.

                          So while Doug says it takes years to truly tear a team down, I say bullsh!t. Why? Well, a whole bunch of more manageable trade pieces were just acquired for one albatross of a contract. It is possible that only Chuck Hayes remains after this season and he is on a small $5.9M expiring next season. That is not years, that is 16 months.

                          Where else is Doug missing the forest through the trees? Tearing a team down and building one are not mutually exclusive. You can build while tearing down - how? You can make a coaching change to get a new coach who fits a new direction (or is just competent, that would be a start). There is a thing called the draft where really talented players can come in. There is a thing called not burning a hole in one's pocket with cap space. Cap space does not need to be spent. Cap space also does not need to be pissed away. Cap space can be strategically used (for example, taking on horrible contracts to extract assets such as prospects and picks next season). Even keeping Novak and DeRozan, should the not add salary for 2015-16 they have just $21M on the books for 2015-16. And don't forget there are no limits on trades and cap space is extremely valuable in those as well. No matter what way or method Toronto pursues they are going to need a bit of luck and come 2015-16 this team could be on the verge of competing for decades.


                          Summary: Tearing a team down and building a team are not mutually exclusive. This years argument is nonsense unless you anticipate Ujiri sinking to the level of Khan or Petrie.

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                          • #73
                            The more I see Smitty quotes, the more I'm reminded why I stopped reading his work. The man is truly out to lunch.

                            Stick to reporting the news, Dougie. Your opinions are from bizzaro world.

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                            • #74
                              Would love to hear the bball conversations between a drunk Dougie and Kelly at the Star's xmas party. Here are 2 guys working in the same department, covering the same team, who have completely opposite assessments of the team.

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                              • #75
                                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                The more I see Smitty quotes, the more I'm reminded why I stopped reading his work. The man is truly out to lunch.

                                Stick to reporting the news, Dougie. Your opinions are from bizzaro world.
                                I rarely read his work.

                                I went today just to see how he was spinning the trade.... curiosity killed the cat.

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