franchise outlook discussion

[special1]

I gotta' ask...I am on this site a fair bit (although I don't always sign in) and am wondering when I stop being a rookie (lol)?

LOL I feel your pain dude.... I've been on this site for a long time as well (mostly while at work so i didnt really have a chance to post anything). I've almost doubled your posts and i'm still a rookie lol

[Axel]

Maybe they think the deal will be there again this summer and they want to get the pick obligation over with?

Not sure.

Talking out of my ass here.

Sounds like BC's roster plan.

If the Boozer deal is there in the off-season, then I think you have to take it for the reasons mentioned above; but I wonder if Chicago wont have better options by then. Another year shaved off the deal, more picks and prospects in play, the Bulls might be able to do better than Bargnani, especially for teams that miss out on signing Millsap or Josh Smith.

Player development hasn't been the best in our history.

[special1]

Maybe they think the deal will be there again this summer and they want to get the pick obligation over with?

Not sure.

Talking out of my ass here.

I hope your right.....

However, I do know that Boozer >>> Bargnani. As someone posted earlier... Lowry, Demar Derozan, Rudy Gay, Boozer, Amir/JV would've been a pretty DARN good starting unit. Sigh

[mcHAPPY]

+1

My thoughts exactly....at least you know what your going to get from Boozer every night. 16 ppg and 9-10 rpg. Bargnani gives you 16 ppg (he used to) and 4 rpg. You cant get better value than Boozer IMO.

Maybe they think the deal will be there again this summer and they want to get the pick obligation over with?

Not sure.

Talking out of my ass here.

[akashsingh]

I'm not going to pretend the Gay trade hasn't far exceeded my expectations, but it's also why I desperately wanted to trade Bargnani before adding pieces like that. This was the exact type of situation I was afraid of...where we'd be stuck hoping Bargnani miraculously (seriously, can we get a little divine intervention here?) plays better to increase his value rather than a) just swallowing a Boozer deal for the next couple of years, or b) swallowing your pride and just doing an addition by subtraction trade that turns Bargs into easier assets to manage. One is a bball trade, the other a finance/flexibility trade. There's no reason any smaller contract(s) taken back couldn't be useful in summer transactions. This team as constructed is going to depend A LOT on internal development, and a lot of that coming from JV to shore up the front (which is a given to me, I'm just not sure on his timeline).

this is worrisome, player development is not a sure thing, but it also means there is still a chance.

[special1]

The current situation is exactly why if the rumours were true and Boozer/Nate were on the table for Bargnani/JL3, they should have pulled that trigger.

Boozer wasn't ideal but he was at least productive and fit 2 very sore areas of need: low post scoring and rebounding.

The Raptors are now stuck with not only an immovable contract in Bargnani but an unproductive one. I'd have much rather an immovable contract in Boozer who at least produces.

By taking on Boozer, the Raps immediately would have become much better and could compete for a second round appearance while JV and Ross develop.

What a sad state of affairs.

+1

My thoughts exactly....at least you know what your going to get from Boozer every night. 16 ppg and 9-10 rpg. Bargnani gives you 16 ppg (he used to) and 4 rpg. You cant get better value than Boozer IMO.

[white men can't jump]

The current situation is exactly why if the rumours were true and Boozer/Nate were on the table for Bargnani/JL3, they should have pulled that trigger.

Boozer wasn't ideal but he was at least productive and fit 2 very sore areas of need: low post scoring and rebounding.

The Raptors are now stuck with not only an immovable contract in Bargnani but an unproductive one. I'd have much rather an immovable contract in Boozer who at least produces.

By taking on Boozer, the Raps immediately would have become much better and could compete for a second round appearance while JV and Ross develop.

What a sad state of affairs.

I'm not going to pretend the Gay trade hasn't far exceeded my expectations, but it's also why I desperately wanted to trade Bargnani before adding pieces like that. This was the exact type of situation I was afraid of...where we'd be stuck hoping Bargnani miraculously (seriously, can we get a little divine intervention here?) plays better to increase his value rather than a) just swallowing a Boozer deal for the next couple of years, or b) swallowing your pride and just doing an addition by subtraction trade that turns Bargs into easier assets to manage. One is a bball trade, the other a finance/flexibility trade. There's no reason any smaller contract(s) taken back couldn't be useful in summer transactions. This team as constructed is going to depend A LOT on internal development, and a lot of that coming from JV to shore up the front (which is a given to me, I'm just not sure on his timeline).

[akashsingh]

Can't say I agree with your assessment of Demar. I think he has improved dramatically in these areas. In regards to Bargnani, I think they have to figure out how to use him. He is not made for run and gun, he needs a set offence. As the sixth man, he would do well if they would post him in the middle. For whatever reason, they don't. Make no mistake, the coach has said tiome and again that AB creates spacing by being on the perimeter...I just don't think this works!

how many possessions out of 100 do we run n gun? we play half court the majority of the time.

[Fully]

I am willing to give bargnani a chance as a 3rd option, until a GOOD trade offer comes along, it is undeniable he is a good fit with the team, because he spaces the floor. It makes sense that he should try to improve other aspects of his game (rebounding, passing, DEFENSE) now that his role in the offense isn't as large. But I am not holding my breath. The success of this team hinges on the development of valanciunas, tross, and bargnani. A big problem with bargnani is he has the heart of a bitch, I have never seen him sustain a good level of intensity, over the duration of the entire game, his conditioning sucks.

You can't really say that Bargnani is "undeniably" a good fit with this team and then go on to list 15 bad things about him. In theory he should help because he draws a big defender out of the lane and gives DD/Gay/Lowry room to drive. In reality he's a ball stopper and doesn't get hot enough offensively to justify having him on the court for long periods of times. Plus there's the issue of having $11 million tied up in a player that isn't consistent enough to get regular bench minutes. Enough chances for this guy.

The current situation is exactly why if the rumours were true and Boozer/Nate were on the table for Bargnani/JL3, they should have pulled that trigger.

Boozer wasn't ideal but he was at least productive and fit 2 very sore areas of need: low post scoring and rebounding.

The Raptors are now stuck with not only an immovable contract in Bargnani but an unproductive one. I'd have much rather an immovable contract in Boozer who at least produces.

By taking on Boozer, the Raps immediately would have become much better and could compete for a second round appearance while JV and Ross develop.

What a sad state of affairs.

I also thought that they should have taken the Boozer trade if it was actually on the table. It would have slapped another terrible contract on top of the pile but it wouldn't hinder the team's flexibility going forward since they didn't have any to begin with. The acquisition of Gay pretty much ended the "rebuild" phase, despite what BC tells you. Boozer's contract would have actually lined up well with the other team's long term deals. They could have two years trying to win a playoff series and then have a glut of cap space in 2015 (with hopefully a repaired reputation around the league that allows them to use it). They wouldn't have to give up DD either, eliminating the hole theory I said earlier. Lowry-DD-Gay-Boozer-JV is an NBA quality starting lineup.

[Eric Akshinthala]

Even if we do move Bargnani, what are we going to get in return? Surely no team is going to give up the rugged interior player who can score on the blocks for Bargnani. Any deal for Bargnani wont likely solve our PF problem, which means Amir + what-ever stop gap solution we can find. A cheap option like soon to be waived Hakim Warrick might be realistic but not exactly inspiring. Until we have a first round pick again, we might be stuck with Amir/Bargnani.

The fact that he(Bargnani) wasn't moved yesterday shows that his value is not good enough to net us something good. I believe the off-season is different. Unlike the time before the trade deadline where GM's concentrate on improving the teams chances of making the play-offs, they(GM's) look at wider range of needs in the off-season. My point is there are many things BC can and might do with Bargnani. Maybe address the back-up PG need. Maybe trade him as part of a package for a starter. Bargnani's present struggles are not an indication of his value overall. Even though not a great one, he has built a reputation for himself and GM's will go by that.

[Halifax Raps Fan]

I gotta' ask...I am on this site a fair bit (although I don't always sign in) and am wondering when I stop being a rookie (lol)?

[Halifax Raps Fan]

I am willing to give bargnani a chance as a 3rd option, until a GOOD trade offer comes along, it is undeniable he is a good fit with the team, because he spaces the floor. It makes sense that he should try to improve other aspects of his game (rebounding, passing, DEFENSE) now that his role in the offense isn't as large. But I am not holding my breath. The success of this team hinges on the development of valanciunas, tross, and bargnani. A big problem with bargnani is he has the heart of a bitch, I have never seen him sustain a good level of intensity, over the duration of the entire game, his conditioning sucks.

Derozan I am not a big fan of, he will never be an elite defender, elite shooter, he is EASY to defend, because he can't shoot. And on top of that, he has poor shot selection. When we face teams with good wing defenders, he is exposed.

Can't say I agree with your assessment of Demar. I think he has improved dramatically in these areas. In regards to Bargnani, I think they have to figure out how to use him. He is not made for run and gun, he needs a set offence. As the sixth man, he would do well if they would post him in the middle. For whatever reason, they don't. Make no mistake, the coach has said tiome and again that AB creates spacing by being on the perimeter...I just don't think this works!

[mcHAPPY]

The current situation is exactly why if the rumours were true and Boozer/Nate were on the table for Bargnani/JL3, they should have pulled that trigger.

Boozer wasn't ideal but he was at least productive and fit 2 very sore areas of need: low post scoring and rebounding.

The Raptors are now stuck with not only an immovable contract in Bargnani but an unproductive one. I'd have much rather an immovable contract in Boozer who at least produces.

By taking on Boozer, the Raps immediately would have become much better and could compete for a second round appearance while JV and Ross develop.

What a sad state of affairs.

[akashsingh]

I am willing to give bargnani a chance as a 3rd option, until a GOOD trade offer comes along, it is undeniable he is a good fit with the team, because he spaces the floor. It makes sense that he should try to improve other aspects of his game (rebounding, passing, DEFENSE) now that his role in the offense isn't as large. But I am not holding my breath. The success of this team hinges on the development of valanciunas, tross, and bargnani. A big problem with bargnani is he has the heart of a bitch, I have never seen him sustain a good level of intensity, over the duration of the entire game, his conditioning sucks.

Derozan I am not a big fan of, he will never be an elite defender, elite shooter, he is EASY to defend, because he can't shoot. And on top of that, he has poor shot selection. When we face teams with good wing defenders, he is exposed.

[special1]

I am looking to see what happens with four players. Demar, Fields, Ross and JV.

Demar has improved every year he's been on the team. I see no reason he won't improve again for next season. I believe he studies his own tape, so he is quite conscious of his weak points. Next year, improved ball handling, increased strength and better court vision will lead to improved assists and fewer turnovers.

Fields will be working with the team coaches and trainers on his shot. I think it is killing him now that he can't shoot well. He plays so hard when he is out there that I suspect we will see a significant improvement next year. It's the only part of his game that needs to improve. This year he is shooting 44%, but he is pretty much only taking layups, so his scoring is way down.

Ross needs to stop being a rookie. He seems humble and good natured. I have no idea how hard he will work in the off-season, but if he puts in the time and spends time with the assistant coaches I expect improvement in his shot selection and accuracy next season. A subset of all of this is Casey needs an offensive minded Assistant who can come up with better use of players. I believe Ross would do better with better offensive schemes being run.

Jv, I don't have to say much. Get stronger. And send little private notes to the rest of the team. "When I am in the paint, waving my hands, you can pass to me and I can hit the shot." He is not being used well yet by Casey. See above reference to offensive minded assistant coach.

My thoughts are very similar to this Post.

I expect DD to improve as he has always done each year.

I expect JV to come back stronger, wiser and thus better.

I hope Ross works hard on his game - as hard as ED and Demar did in the past offseason and become a LEGIT 6th man for us.

My main concern moving forward is Andrea Bargnani and how we plan to rid ourselves of him and his contract. Also, who if any useable piece could we get for him. Its obvious there's very little interest in his services and this may really be a HUGE factor in us having a chance to really compete in the near future.

I read an article from Kelly (Toronto Star) that sums up my thoughts with regards to Andrea - i'm quoting the last few sentences below.

"Amongst the many maddening things about a very decent young man is that you do not get any sense that he cares. New York or Sacramento? Chicago or Charlotte? You’d care. I’d care. He doesn’t care. He is an unmoored ship drifting through his NBA career, content to smash into a dock somewhere, before drifting for a little while longer.

If you knew him, you’d wish him luck. Odds are, you quite understandably wish your team more."


I dont think he understands that if we move him for the sake....he could very well be heading into a miserable situation. Regardless, BC has to move him this offseason. $10-11 million per year for a soft backup is too much for this team to swallow while trying to be compete.

click the link to read the full article below...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...unt_kelly.html