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Dwane Casey on Bargnani/JV substitution

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  • Dwane Casey on Bargnani/JV substitution

    http://raptorswatch.com/2013/02/28/d...onas-rotation/

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/2013/02/28/casey_ts/ (link to interview)

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by T.Dot; Thu Feb 28, 2013, 05:15 PM.

  • #2
    haha bargs and spacing!

    at least DC recognizes that AA is struggling offensively, despite putting him on constantly.

    Comment


    • #3
      This goes back to the theory of Bargnani vs. the reality of Bargnani.

      In theory Bargnani should be perfect as a sole big out there. He's a big dude so, theoretically, he should be able to rebound and protect the paint sufficiently and, theoretically, he causes the other team's big a difficult match-up on the other end cause he can play all over the floor. Theoretically.

      The problem is that the theory of Bargnani has never worked in reality. In reality, Bargnani simply isn't a good enough rebounder or defender to be your only big on the floor. It simply doesn't work. It isn't even a knock on Andrea. He simply plays better when he's paired with a physical big who can take pressure of him on the defensive end. We've seen this for 7 years.

      I had to laugh at the "frustrated with all the bigs". Jebus. How can you ever be frustrated with JV? Dude tries harder than anyone out there. He makes mistakes but, man, that's something. Same with Amir. Sure he has the odd poor game but the dude plays through injuries all the time and busts his ass. That whole comment is stupid. It's just stupid.

      Comment


      • #4
        slaw wrote: View Post
        This goes back to the theory of Bargnani vs. the reality of Bargnani.

        In theory Bargnani should be perfect as a sole big out there. He's a big dude so, theoretically, he should be able to rebound and protect the paint sufficiently and, theoretically, he causes the other team's big a difficult match-up on the other end cause he can play all over the floor. Theoretically.

        The problem is that the theory of Bargnani has never worked in reality. In reality, Bargnani simply isn't a good enough rebounder or defender to be your only big on the floor. It simply doesn't work. It isn't even a knock on Andrea. He simply plays better when he's paired with a physical big who can take pressure of him on the defensive end. We've seen this for 7 years.

        I had to laugh at the "frustrated with all the bigs". Jebus. How can you ever be frustrated with JV? Dude tries harder than anyone out there. He makes mistakes but, man, that's something. Same with Amir. Sure he has the odd poor game but the dude plays through injuries all the time and busts his ass. That whole comment is stupid. It's just stupid.
        We've known for years that defense isn't his specialty. Casey just has to manage the substitutions effectively so it could work for everybody.

        Comment


        • #5
          Aren't you tired of Casey playing safe every time? He does not take any responsobility for the losses, he is defending Bargnani when it's obvious he should stop doing that. He does not have balls to do that, to play someone else during crunch time, not because he may get criticized after doing so for not playing your one of most expensive assets but for not being a tough leader and showing that lack of effort does not deserve presence on the court. Of course he is coach and he has to support his guys, act professional etc. But enough is enough, I got tired of his interviews basically saying the same thing everytime and pouring from empty to botomless. You have to be tough otherwise you will not be respected eventually, players may hate you, some fans may, but look what current situation has led to. Lets take a look to examples of great coaches in Pop, McHale, Van Gundy, sure he got fired because management traded him for balless Dwight who betrayed the organization anyway, but they were a top playoff team, look at them now.

          2nd I was really unpleasantly surprised when he tried to protect Bargnani and threw under the bus JV and AJ. This was huge loss of respect for him from me as a fan. You cannot do that with guys who show effort and hustle and even do way better on nightly basis in order just to protect one soft human being for just him having talent and being tall. He is slacker, he does not have passion for his job, he is here to get the paycheck and rest. How can you discredit players who sacrifice all they got during those 48 minutes like that.
          Last edited by RandomGuy; Fri Mar 1, 2013, 06:12 AM.
          Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

          Comment


          • #6
            RandomGuy wrote: View Post
            Aren't you tired of Casey playing safe every time? He does not take any responsobility for the losses, he is defending Bargnani when it's obvious he should stop doing that. He does not have balls to do that, to play someone else during crunch time, not because he may get criticized after doing so for not playing your one of most expensive assets but for not being a tough leader and showing that lack of effort does not deserve presence on the court. Of course he is coach and he has to support his guys, act professional etc. But enough is enough, I got tired of his interviews basically saying the same thing everytime and pouring from empty to botomless. You have to be tough otherwise you will not be respected eventually, players may hate you, some fans may, but look what current situation has led to. Lets take a look to examples of great coaches in Pop, McHale, Van Gundy, sure he got fired because management traded him for balless Dwight who betrayed the organization anyway, but they were a top playoff team, look at them now.

            2nd I was really unpleasantly surprised when he tried to protect Bargnani and threw under the bus JV and AJ. This was huge loss of respect for him from me as a fan. You cannot do that with guys who show effort and hustle and even do way better on nightly basis in order just to protect one soft human being for just him having talent and being tall. He is slacker, he does not have passion for his job, he is here to get the paycheck and rest. How can you discredit players who sacrifice all they got during those 48 minutes like that.
            Great points. earlier in the season when we were like 3 - 10 i started a thread saying that Casey was the the main problem of the team with his coaching choices. Especially with his substitutions, and i got picked apart for my grammar instead of my point of view.

            Now everyone have seen more than their share. #fireCaseyAlready!!!!!!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't see any reason to fire the coach. You fire a coach for the following reasons:

              (a) The team is performing well below expectations and you've tried everything else and it's not getting any better.
              (b) He files a lawsuit against a former player for defamation of character.
              (c) He lies to his players about being in the Vietnam war.
              (d) Players have stopped listening and are tuning him out.

              None of these apply, although if he continues to use Bargnani the way he has, I can see D happening.
              your pal,
              ebrian

              Comment


              • #8
                ebrian wrote: View Post
                I don't see any reason to fire the coach. You fire a coach for the following reasons:

                (a) The team is performing well below expectations and you've tried everything else and it's not getting any better.
                (b) He files a lawsuit against a former player for defamation of character.
                (c) He lies to his players about being in the Vietnam war.
                (d) Players have stopped listening and are tuning him out.

                None of these apply, although if he continues to use Bargnani the way he has, I can see D happening.
                There is a legitimate option (e) that you forgot about: "To take the fall for the GM's mistakes"

                Comment


                • #9
                  RandomGuy wrote: View Post
                  Aren't you tired of Casey playing safe every time? He does not take any responsobility for the losses, he is defending Bargnani when it's obvious he should stop doing that. He does not have balls to do that, to play someone else during crunch time, not because he may get criticized after doing so for not playing your one of most expensive assets but for not being a tough leader and showing that lack of effort does not deserve presence on the court. Of course he is coach and he has to support his guys, act professional etc. But enough is enough, I got tired of his interviews basically saying the same thing everytime and pouring from empty to botomless. You have to be tough otherwise you will not be respected eventually, players may hate you, some fans may, but look what current situation has led to. Lets take a look to examples of great coaches in Pop, McHale, Van Gundy, sure he got fired because management traded him for balless Dwight who betrayed the organization anyway, but they were a top playoff team, look at them now.

                  2nd I was really unpleasantly surprised when he tried to protect Bargnani and threw under the bus JV and AJ. This was huge loss of respect for him from me as a fan. You cannot do that with guys who show effort and hustle and even do way better on nightly basis in order just to protect one soft human being for just him having talent and being tall. He is slacker, he does not have passion for his job, he is here to get the paycheck and rest. How can you discredit players who sacrifice all they got during those 48 minutes like that
                  .

                  Casey is clearly in a tough position.

                  If he comes out to the media ala Stan Van Gundy and says Andrea sucks, he will basically kill any potential team who is considering the possibility of thinking about acquiring him at some point.

                  At the same time, if he baby's him, the team will lose and he may lose his (actual) players' respect.

                  In this case though, I think he is really out to lunch. He has no clue how to handle this.

                  Bottom line, We all watched the game:

                  - he puts bargs in for his putrid stint in the first half
                  - chooses to put in Aaron Gray to spell JV in the third
                  - Puts in bargs to play most of the 4th

                  To me, putting in Gray in the 3rd sends a message to bargs and the team. He went out of the normal rotation to put in the 11th man over bargs.

                  Then he sends a different message by having bargs play even MORE crucial minutes.

                  THEN he comes out after to the media and tries to pawn it off as some sort of "I was trying to find someone who would just do the job"

                  If I were JV or Amir I would be even more pissed off than I was before. (even Aaron gray should be pissed).

                  Casey is in over his head on this, there's no question

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    There is a legitimate option (e) that you forgot about: "To take the fall for the GM's mistakes"
                    Haha.. haven't we already lost two coaches this way? I'm not saying Triano and Mitchell were perfect, but it's not as if Colangelo has been making great moves over the past 7 years..
                    your pal,
                    ebrian

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      BallaBalla wrote: View Post
                      Casey is clearly in a tough position.

                      If he comes out to the media ala Stan Van Gundy and says Andrea sucks, he will basically kill any potential team who is considering the possibility of thinking about acquiring him at some point.

                      At the same time, if he baby's him, the team will lose and he may lose his (actual) players' respect.

                      In this case though, I think he is really out to lunch. He has no clue how to handle this.

                      Bottom line, We all watched the game:

                      - he puts bargs in for his putrid stint in the first half
                      - chooses to put in Aaron Gray to spell JV in the third
                      - Puts in bargs to play most of the 4th

                      To me, putting in Gray in the 3rd sends a message to bargs and the team. He went out of the normal rotation to put in the 11th man over bargs.

                      Then he sends a different message by having bargs play even MORE crucial minutes.

                      THEN he comes out after to the media and tries to pawn it off as some sort of "I was trying to find someone who would just do the job"

                      If I were JV or Amir I would be even more pissed off than I was before. (even Aaron gray should be pissed).

                      Casey is in over his head on this, there's no question
                      +1000. You are alienating your performing players to try and up the value of a career under-performer???? This team makes no sense!! It's infuriating how many people can see this and it still continues. We're lucky we have strong character guys 'cause if we didn't shit would've hit the fan by now.
                      There's math, and everything else is debatable.

                      @clericalbeats

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
                        +1000. You are alienating your performing players to try and up the value of a career under-performer???? This team makes no sense!! It's infuriating how many people can see this and it still continues. We're lucky we have strong character guys 'cause if we didn't shit would've hit the fan by now.
                        You raise an interesting point, here. We do have a locker room full of well-behaved, team-first, generally good guys.

                        But I wonder how well the Bargnani-babying would've been received in any other locker room. I can't help but think the tolerance would not have lasted 7 years (and counting....).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          BallaBalla wrote: View Post
                          Casey is clearly in a tough position.

                          If he comes out to the media ala Stan Van Gundy and says Andrea sucks, he will basically kill any potential team who is considering the possibility of thinking about acquiring him at some point.

                          At the same time, if he baby's him, the team will lose and he may lose his (actual) players' respect.

                          In this case though, I think he is really out to lunch. He has no clue how to handle this.

                          Bottom line, We all watched the game:

                          - he puts bargs in for his putrid stint in the first half
                          - chooses to put in Aaron Gray to spell JV in the third
                          - Puts in bargs to play most of the 4th

                          To me, putting in Gray in the 3rd sends a message to bargs and the team. He went out of the normal rotation to put in the 11th man over bargs.

                          Then he sends a different message by having bargs play even MORE crucial minutes.

                          THEN he comes out after to the media and tries to pawn it off as some sort of "I was trying to find someone who would just do the job"

                          If I were JV or Amir I would be even more pissed off than I was before. (even Aaron gray should be pissed).

                          Casey is in over his head on this, there's no question
                          teams already aware of how garbage bargs is, no one wants him, especially with his ridiculous contract. so in the end he (or colangelo) is just trying to save face from the embarrassment that is bargs. and in the end, its a lose lose situation for everybody.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            phez wrote: View Post
                            teams already aware of how garbage bargs is, no one wants him, especially with his ridiculous contract. so in the end he (or colangelo) is just trying to save face from the embarrassment that is bargs. and in the end, its a lose lose situation for everybody.
                            Sadly, yes. At this point, Darko Milicic > Bargnani

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'll just say that Dwane Casey has lost a lot of respect from me in the last few days....

                              I'll also say he can get it back if he just starts delivering a consistent message for the rest of the season.

                              Finally, I hope he doesn't get fired before BC does....BC has made the rosters and picked the last 2 coaches. Much more blame goes on him. I'm fine with Casey getting to stay next season with a clean slate and roster that should expect no change. I don't know how he fits long-term, but he's never actually coached a team with several talented players and few holes/weaknesses (I mean this especially defensively, where even now JV/Amir/Gay/Demar/Lowry have looked really impressive as a defensive unit).

                              Comment

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