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The fallacy of the pass first PG as the key to winning and offensive production

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  • #16
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I tend to agree with a lot of what is in here.

    First bold:
    They are definitely talented - no question the most talented in the league (well, Melo is a black hole taking 23 shots per game but whatever). The key thing is their talent is being maximized. I don't think Toronto's talent is being maximized in the type of offense they are running.

    Second bold:
    I agree with everything on Colangelo. However, there is more talent on this roster than there has been in years. It definitely is not perfect - far from it - but I think there is more ability than the regimented offensive sets and stagnating iso's (**cough**AA**cough**) that have been run of late. I do think Casey is to blame for this.


    Movement is the #1 issue for me - not enough of it. Not enough player movement off the ball, not enough ball movement.
    That's the point (2nd bold).

    Irrespective of colangelo We have more talent on the team now and we should be better offensively with the team we have now.

    The coach can always make a difference in the performance of a team, however slight

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    • #17
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      I tend to agree with a lot of what is in here.

      First bold:
      They are definitely talented - no question the most talented in the league (well, Melo is a black hole taking 23 shots per game but whatever). The key thing is their talent is being maximized. I don't think Toronto's talent is being maximized in the type of offense they are running.

      Second bold:
      I agree with everything on Colangelo. However, there is more talent on this roster than there has been in years. It definitely is not perfect - far from it - but I think there is more ability than the regimented offensive sets and stagnating iso's (**cough**AA**cough**) that have been run of late. I do think Casey is to blame for this.


      Movement is the #1 issue for me - not enough of it. Not enough player movement off the ball, not enough ball movement.
      There is BUT, I don't think its enough talent and I don't think its well distributed talent (ie. well built team). The real problem right now is Colangelo has exhausted almost all of this teams best assets to get the talent it has. Which leaves the team needing more, but with little to give up.

      For instance I think Pau makes alot of sense on this team right now and the Raps could potentially be a Memphis-east team (no superstar but lots of talent across the board - with similar style players and build at positions - and coincidentally 3 players who came through Memphis). With a healthy starting line up of Lowry, Ross, Gay, Pau and Val with Amir the third big off the bench, I think the team could compete in the east. (Miami and a healthy Chicago would still be tough to beat, but that applies to every team). But it leads to some serious questions:

      1) can the Raps even get Pau from LA with what amounts to some combination of whats left? ie. Bargnani, Demar, Kleiza, AA etc
      2) Even if they can would MLSE spend rather deep into the cap?
      3) Can that roster (specifically Pau - although Lowry aswell with his style of play) stay healthy?
      4) Will the rather small window work? ie. Pau's age vs Val/Ross developing quickly enough?
      5) Would Colangelo willingly give up two players he previously identified as 'core' guys? (Demar and/or Bargnani)

      We can replace Pau with a bunch of different names (Milsap or Smith or whoever), but the questions end up remaining the same or atleast similar. This team, with the players it has, could use an offensively efficient big man who rebounds and is a good passer, while Ross and Val improve rather quickly (ie. become reliable players), obtained within some means thats fits the salary cap rules (ie. almost definetely needs to be a trade) and at a total cost MLSE (Rogers/Bell) would willing spend for a couple years of competing. Thats no small or easy feat.

      I just don't see it happening. I think there is too much that needs to come together, with very little available on this team to give up (without causing other problems), to make it all work.

      Now if Bagnani or Demar, by some miracle, become valuable, this is all a different story. Ofcourse if they were valuable players we wouldn't need to fill any holes either.......
      Last edited by Craiger; Sun Mar 3rd, 2013, 11:25 AM.

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      • #18
        Craiger wrote: View Post
        There is BUT, I don't think its enough talent and I don't think its well distributed talent (ie. well built team). The real problem right now is Colangelo has exhausted almost all of this teams best assets to get the talent it has. Which leaves the team needing more, but with little to give up.

        For instance I think Pau makes alot of sense on this team right now and the Raps could potentially be a Memphis-east team (no superstar but lots of talent across the board - with similar style players and build at positions - and coincidentally 3 players who came through Memphis). With a healthy starting line up of Lowry, Ross, Gay, Pau and Val with Amir the third big off the bench, I think the team could compete in the east. (Miami and a healthy Chicago would still be tough to beat, but that applies to every team). But it leads to some serious questions:

        1) can the Raps even get Pau from LA with what amounts to some combination of whats left? ie. Bargnani, Demar, Kleiza, AA etc
        2) Even if they can would MLSE spend rather deep into the cap?
        3) Can that roster (specifically Pau - although Lowry aswell with his style of play) stay healthy?
        4) Will the rather small window work? ie. Pau's age vs Val/Ross developing quickly enough?
        5) Would Colangelo willingly give up two players he previously identified as 'core' guys? (Demar and/or Bargnani)

        We can replace Pau with a bunch of different names (Milsap or Smith or whoever), but the questions end up remaining the same or atleast similar. This team, with the players it has, could use an offensively efficient big man who rebounds and is a good passer, while Ross and Val improve rather quickly (ie. become reliable players), obtained within some means thats fits the salary cap rules (ie. almost definetely needs to be a trade) and at a total cost MLSE (Rogers/Bell) would willing spend for a couple years of competing. Thats no small or easy feat.

        I just don't see it happening. I think there is too much that needs to come together, with very little available on this team to give up (without causing other problems), to make it all work.

        Now if Bagnani or Demar, by some miracle, become valuable, this is all a different story. Ofcourse if they were valuable players we wouldn't need to fill any holes either.......

        Content is crucial for Rogers/Bell. The cost of the luxury tax could likely easily be covered and then some with a competitive team drawing television viewers and playoff revenues.

        I think Boozer ends up here, not Gasol.

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