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  • Brian Shaw

    Here's a idea for a new head coach. He's been a assistant for a few years now and was considered by many as the natural replacement for Phil Jackson when he retired. We all saw what happened there. Now he's the ast coach for one of the best defensive teams in the league, the pacers. Vogel has talked about how much he's done for guys like George and Stephenson ad nauseum. Wonder what he could do with Ross or even Demar? I've long said the Raps need more young, creative minds in the brain trust and Shaw would fit that to a T.

    Just a thought. Discuss away.
    @sweatpantsjer

  • #2
    Agreed, I've always felt that Phil Jackson had an amazing mind contributing to both Chicago and the Lakers championship runs. Brian Shaw has a good resume coupled with his experience as an retired NBA player. A lot of people have said arguably that Indiana is one of the best defensive teams in the current season and the Raptors need a guy such as Shaw to strengthen their defense, especially in playing in the 4th quarter, I can't even count how many times this season that the Raptors blew out respectable leads over their opponents to only lose because defensively they weren't on the same page.

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    • #3
      Shaw is apparently quite good in situationals, from what I've read during Los Angeles's time in their head coach search. I think that's where we'll really see him fit, because Coach Casey is TERRIBLE in running designed set plays/systems in different situations..

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      • #4
        The knock on Shaw has been his insistence on running the triangle in his interviews.

        Do you think Toronto has the personnel to run this?

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        • #5
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          The knock on Shaw has been his insistence on running the triangle in his interviews.

          Do you think Toronto has the personnel to run this?
          Exactly what I was about to say. I don't know that we have the right personnel for the triangle, plus the bigger question is, do we even want to run it? No one has had any success with it except for Phil Jackson. All of his disciples that tried to run it failed miserably. Is it a legit option or is it just an offence that can work when you have a HOF SG (Jordan/Kobe) to work with?


          Here's a recent article about top assistants getting top job consideration.

          http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...?sct=uk_bf3_a5
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • #6
            There's also this one about the Triangle Offense, and a bit about why no one will hire a coach who insists on running it.

            http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...iangle-offense

            I just don't know. The talk about no one ever winning anything with this offense without Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant does hold some merit, but looking at it from a Raptors standpoint -- why not? I don't know why we hired Sam Mitchell, but I remember how people said he motivated Kevin Garnett and helped the young man become the man he is today. Jay Triano, he was a Canadian (apart from that I can't think of a single reason he was hired). And then we went after defensive guy coming off a championship year in Casey, and at times this has paid off. On other times, he plays the wrong guys at the wrong times and is, for the most part, showing why he'd make a great defensive-minded assistant coach.

            Do we have the personnel? History shows that we don't, based on the number of failed attempts by other teams that didn't have dynastic-level talent. I will say this -- we will never, EVER attract the level of coaching pedigree of a Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich or Jerry Sloan. That kind of guy will not come here to coach unless the team has built a solid half-decade (at least) long of winning tradition. Same reason you don't see a CEO quitting his job to join a start-up. Why not take a gamble on someone like Brian Shaw, who has seen his fair share of success for many years, albeit in assistant capacity? We've tried everything else and it's not working.
            Last edited by ebrian; Mon Mar 4, 2013, 08:48 AM.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • #7
              ebrian wrote: View Post
              I will say this -- we will never, EVER attract the level of coaching pedigree of a Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich or Jerry Sloan. That kind of guy will not come here to coach unless the team has built a solid half-decade (at least) long of winning tradition. Same reason you don't see a CEO quitting his job to join a start-up. Why not take a gamble on someone like Brian Shaw, who has seen his fair share of success for many years, albeit in assistant capacity? We've tried everything else and it's not working.
              So that begs the question, would Shaw even take the job? If he is a hot prospect, would he take the Raptors job or would he choose to wait and see what opens up down the road? He is young enough that waiting for a few years isn't the end of the world.

              I agree that we won't land a proven guy like you mentioned, but Casey was held in high regard when we hired him. I think we will always have a chance to land a good coach from the assistant ranks, but we wont be able to bring in a Sloan, Jackson type guy or even a top NCAA coach.
              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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              • #8
                Sure as an assistant coach, but if the topic is replacing Casey as the head coach I wouldn't support it. Idiana had one of the best defenses last season without Shaw, and George was up and coming anyway, so don't see how Shaw has put an imprint on anything as yet. I haven't seen him do anything of significance which makes me think he'll be a good head coach so far.

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                • #9
                  Here's a crazy idea...maybe (for once), we could hire someone with a full season of head coaching experience under his belt....

                  Not since the Lenny Wilkins era has this requirement been met.

                  Whether it's players or coaches, I'm tired of this organization taking "chances" or "flyers" or "gambles" on people and hoping that everything works out in a best-case scenario. Whatever happened to relying on proven results?

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                  • #10
                    To answer Axel, I think Brian Shaw falls into a lower category than Dwane Casey. From what I've read he's interviewed for 9 head coaching positions and hasn't gotten a bite for the specific reason that most of this thread is all about -- he wants to run an offense that no team wants. Casey was at a point where he was getting enough recognition in the league for being responsible for Dallas' stellar defense in a championship run. Shaw has never been seen as anything close to Casey from that standpoint.

                    Nilanka -- I wanted us to hire Lawrence Frank at the time when we were trying to decide between Frank and Casey, for the same reason you've outlined. Get a guy who has done it before and done it quite well but also a guy who is relatively young and still needing to (re)prove himself. He's doing a great job in Detroit. You look at that roster and you can't argue he is doing as well as we are with a lot less talent. They're just a couple games back of us but heading into the offseason they'll be about $20M under the cap.
                    your pal,
                    ebrian

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                    • #11
                      ebrian wrote: View Post
                      To answer Axel, I think Brian Shaw falls into a lower category than Dwane Casey. From what I've read he's interviewed for 9 head coaching positions and hasn't gotten a bite for the specific reason that most of this thread is all about -- he wants to run an offense that no team wants. Casey was at a point where he was getting enough recognition in the league for being responsible for Dallas' stellar defense in a championship run. Shaw has never been seen as anything close to Casey from that standpoint.

                      Nilanka -- I wanted us to hire Lawrence Frank at the time when we were trying to decide between Frank and Casey, for the same reason you've outlined. Get a guy who has done it before and done it quite well but also a guy who is relatively young and still needing to (re)prove himself. He's doing a great job in Detroit. You look at that roster and you can't argue he is doing as well as we are with a lot less talent. They're just a couple games back of us but heading into the offseason they'll be about $20M under the cap.
                      Yup, I was leaning more towards Frank for the same reasons.

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                      • #12
                        Nilanka wrote: View Post
                        Here's a crazy idea...maybe (for once), we could hire someone with a full season of head coaching experience under his belt....

                        Not since the Lenny Wilkins era has this requirement been met.

                        Whether it's players or coaches, I'm tired of this organization taking "chances" or "flyers" or "gambles" on people and hoping that everything works out in a best-case scenario. Whatever happened to relying on proven results?
                        That is a good point too.

                        Eddie Jordan ran a lot of motion with the Princeton offense. Mixing that in with some sets for DD, ISO's for Rudy (actually that would come out of running the offense anyways), and post up opportunities.

                        Eddie Jordan was ridiculously flawed at defense and Casey is ridiculously flawed at offense. Sadly, Jordan's defense was on par with Casey's results this season.

                        I could see this working with the Raps current roster:

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                        • #13
                          Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          Here's a crazy idea... Whatever happened to relying on proven results?
                          Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          Yup, I was leaning more towards Frank for the same reasons.
                          You mean the same Frank that's a defensive coach who hasn't had a winning season in 5 seasons as a head coach without a productive Jason Kidd running the offense, and who got canned by NJ when his team started the year at 0-16? That "proven results guy"?

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                          • #14
                            p00ka wrote: View Post
                            You mean the same Frank that's a defensive coach who hasn't had a winning season in 5 seasons as a head coach without a productive Jason Kidd running the offense, and who got canned by NJ when his team started the year at 0-16? That "proven results guy"?
                            Yup, that guy. Because when the short list was down to Casey and Frank, one was clearly ahead of the other in terms of said "results".

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                            • #15
                              Nilanka wrote: View Post
                              Yup, that guy. Because when the short list was down to Casey and Frank, one was clearly ahead of the other in terms of said "results".
                              LOL, ya gotta get a new prescription for your anti-delusion pills.

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