Bargnani and Gay, 1st and 3rd most overpaid?

[ReubenJRD]

Overpaid or not Gay make this team better!

@nbastats: Since Feb.1st, top 3-man lineup in terms of DefRtg is @Raptors' Lowry, Gay, Valanciunas (82.5). Indy's George, Hibbert, West 2nd (83.1)

Yes, but being overpaid will always be a problem. Paying someone more money than they're deserving. I'm a big fan of what Gay has brought, and his talent, but clearly he should not be paid $16 million dollars. Well, not right now.

[JimiCliff]

Well I think you can certainly make the argument that Gay is overpaid, no matter how you slice it....

The problem with the overpaid argument is that so many people are. And I don't just mean the obvious ones. I mean in the sense that often the going rate for an upgrade (perceived or real) is paying more than fair value. Rudy Gay might be making a couple million more than he should, but also, you're not going to be able to sign/retain a player of his talent most of the time without overpaying, which management usually sells as investing in something like potential, or team chemistry/unity, or whatever hell else crap they come up with that's basically a way to avoid saying (using a different player for an example from the infamous Decision summer) "if we bid 12-13 million per season for Boozer instead of 15, we would end up losing the bidding war, regardless of value"...I use Boozer because unlike Gay, it was a contract given on merit rather than potential, but the length/amount were clearly too much. Boozer was among the best PFs though and in his prime when he signed it. Overpaying is very common practice in the NBA.

It's a common practice among bad teams. The smart teams, who end up being the good teams, almost never overpay.

[white men can't jump]

It's a common practice among bad teams. The smart teams, who end up being the good teams, almost never overpay.

Such as? Other than San Antonio...It helps when your franchise player is willing to take paycuts.

[Puffer]

It's a common practice among bad teams. The smart teams, who end up being the good teams, almost never overpay.

So, what would the Raptors record be without overpaying Gay? Does anyone believe that they would have won those games with Calderon and Ed? (And I am a huge Calderon fan...just popped for two tickets for April 1 so I can cheer when he enters the game).

[ReubenJRD]

So, what would the Raptors record be without overpaying Gay? Does anyone believe that they would have won those games with Calderon and Ed? (And I am a huge Calderon fan...just popped for two tickets for April 1 so I can cheer when he enters the game).

I don't. Who closes games? Who's going to have 17 points in the 4th quarter/overtime? Who attracts defense? Who adds confidence the team? Ed and Jose were great for this team, but of them combined doesn't add up to the talent Gay possesses.

[JimiCliff]

Such as? Other than San Antonio...It helps when your franchise player is willing to take paycuts.

But Duncan taking a paycut has nothing to do whether or not they overpay the rest of their roster. They use the extra money wisely and sign good contracts (except for that Jefferson one from a few years back, which is like the one single mistake the Spurs have made in the last fifteen years, and they managed to get rid of it).

Go through all of the better teams, and it's hard to find any guys who are overpaid. Boozer. Hibbert, maybe. Who else?

[JimiCliff]

So, what would the Raptors record be without overpaying Gay? Does anyone believe that they would have won those games with Calderon and Ed? (And I am a huge Calderon fan...just popped for two tickets for April 1 so I can cheer when he enters the game).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this team was better with Jose and Ed. Gay clearly makes us better. But the big question is, with his contract, is it possible that we can put a contending team together around him? And I guess the answer to that question all depends on how much the money the owners are willing to spend. If money isn't an issue, then he was probably a good pickup.

[DeRozanJohnsonFan]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this team was better with Jose and Ed. Gay clearly makes us better. But the big question is, with his contract, is it possible that we can put a contending team together around him? And I guess the answer to that question all depends on how much the money the owners are willing to spend. If money isn't an issue, then he was probably a good pickup.

When the trade was completed, looking at the amount of money they used to get Rudy it looked like to me that they had no intention after the 3 way trade not to add any more talent, cause we all know financially the Raptors are well over due to Bargnani, Gay and I think DeRozan's contract (let me know if I'm wrong). The organization thinks that Rudy Gay is the one guy they supposedly need who could make the team "better" which makes me wonder if management even pays attention to the league/free agency as a whole. Rudy is a great talent don't get me wrong however we need more pieces to the puzzle.

[ReubenJRD]

When the trade was completed, looking at the amount of money they used to get Rudy it looked like to me that they had no intention after the 3 way trade not to add any more talent, cause we all know financially the Raptors are well over due to Bargnani, Gay and I think DeRozan's contract (let me know if I'm wrong). The organization thinks that Rudy Gay is the one guy they supposedly need who could make the team "better" which makes me wonder if management even pays attention to the league/free agency as a whole. Rudy is a great talent don't get me wrong however we need more pieces to the puzzle.

That's where I think Bargnani, Ross, Fields, and Derozan come into play, as they all become trade assets in the off-season to net a significant talent in a sign-&-trade or just straight trade deal. As well, clearing up Kleiza via amnesty will put this team under the tax, and since they will not go over the punitive luxury tax this off-season, they have an available amount of approximately $5 million for the MLE (mid-level exception - can sign as long as 4 years [correct if mistaken]). This team has a tight number of assets they can deal, but Derozan (talent, potential - contract worth might be the value other teams believe it is) and Ross (cheap contract, potential, 1st round pick) will be intriguing for teams in the market. MLE can be used for an emergency big/wing if none of the above names are dealt.

[TRX]

One of the reasons San Antonio never seems to overpay for talent is any player they bring in is just automatically better than they would be elsewhere. Their coaching staff is tremendous. And just to use random numbers as examples, a player worth $5 million/year at most to any other team is worth $7 million/year with the Spurs so they can get away with "overpaying" slightly; if they're paying that player $6.5 million/year to pry him away from a league that'll only pay him $5, they still win. Not to mention it's an unselfish, collective culture that starts from the top with the owners, the GM, the coaching staff - and of course, their big three stars at the top of the player hierarchy. It's very hard to duplicate.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this team was better with Jose and Ed. Gay clearly makes us better. But the big question is, with his contract, is it possible that we can put a contending team together around him? And I guess the answer to that question all depends on how much the money the owners are willing to spend. If money isn't an issue, then he was probably a good pickup.

With Kleiza likely being amnestied ($4.6M) and both Bargnani ($11M) & DeRozan ($9.5M) likely available as trade bait in the offseason, plus exceptions to sign depth players, I think the team still has significant roster flexibility even with Gay on the roster.

[Fully]

A silly statement in my opinion as the public does not have access to the data to do proper analytics.

I have never seen something as simple as shooting percentage from guarded/open shots for example. Or stuff like, what is the proportion of Amir Johnson's 15 footers which are wide open shots when Amir is the fourth option on the floor.

And that's very simple questions with very simple answers if we had the data.

I am sure teams have that data and far, far more interesting data points.

How is that a silly statement? One of the leading analytics sites on the internet just listed Gay as the THIRD MOST OVERPAID player in the league! Are you arguing that the advanced metrics crowd is a big fan of Gay? Did you see some of the stats I listed?
23rd in PER. 54th in TS%. 52nd in ASST %.

No, I am not privy to the wealth of information that the crowd at the Sloan Conference is but there are plenty of advanced stats resources available on the web. The reality is that very few of them reflect well on Gay's season.