Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

HoopsWorld: Raps Still Hoping to Trade Bargnani/BC Fluff

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    I'm not saying that Boozer is the right answer, but what does amnestying AB accomplish? They will still be above the cap so they still can't sign a good free agent. They may have their full MLE instead of the min-MLE but that's not much different in salary, and who would they get in free agency anyway for the MLE? Good players are not coming here for cheap. If Chicago can offer a 1st rounder with Boozer that's a no brainer in my opinion even though Boozer has his flaws.

    As for Boozer's defense.. I think his defense is under rated. Yes he gets to play with Noah and Gibson and has Thibs as a coach, but Boozer did pretty well in both Cleveland and Utah as well. Not stellar but I wouldn't consider him a liability the way AB was (and is).

    My issue with Boozer is his injury history. I don't think he's capable of playing 82 games. And for his price tag, he better be playing more games then less. I'd personally prefer Gasol (better mentor for JV, expiring contract, veteran with championship experience), but now with Kobe's injury I don't think LA will part with him.
    We'll have to agree to disagree about his D. I think it's a joke and disagree that it was any better in clev or utah. Besides the Cavs days were a what 5 years ago? and in Utah he was hurt all the time (and sulking) and was not a good defender when he was healthy. Also, booz pouts and gives half assed effort so although he may be better than AB, his contract is a bitter, evil pill to swallow when you don't know which guy you'll be getting.

    As for amnestying AB, the idea is that just getting rid of him is better than the alt which is being stuck with him. No one is going to give you anyone much better (cap wise or talent wise) and if it costs a draft pick to get rid of AB thats a big hit. As long as AB is on the team the coaches will have to use him and I'm done with that. Addition through subtraction.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

    Comment


    • #17
      i'm going to be sorely disappointed if BC and Casey aren't fired on the 18th
      @sweatpantsjer

      Comment


      • #18
        minks77 wrote: View Post

        I'd rather they amnesty AB than trade him for a guy like Booz.
        .... good for you.

        And tell me, what will Toronto do with Bargnani's cap space? Oh right, they'll still have none.

        Boozer is leading an injury depleted Bulls team with a ragtag collection of NBA journeymen in to the playoffs behind some solid coaching.

        Luckily Toronto does, at the moment, have a coach who, when his head is removed from bum, is a very good defensive coach and strategist. Toronto also has a very good defensive backup PF/C in Amir and a blossoming young C comparable to Noah in their NBA careers (although Noah was 2 years older as a rookie).

        I didn't realize all this winning, financial flexibility, and desirable assets Toronto possesses has left the Raptors fan base picking and choosing which upgrade over Bargnani they should pursue.

        Comment


        • #19
          minks77 wrote: View Post
          Clearing the cabinets is easier said than done. You can't simply terminate contracts and trading in the NBA has always been difficult and is only getting harder as the CBA tightens up. No one seems to want Bargs. Gay is a massive cap hit. Demar is still a question mark when it comes to value for the money. It's nice to say "Blow it all up" but its really much harder to do.

          Also I think you are way off base saying that the team has no prospects. JV is definitely a bright light and a keeper that 29 other teams would take in a heartbeat. Ross isn't a washout yet and Lowry is still a very talented player on a relatively cheap ticket (as is Amir). The bench is awful and the most critical backups are the worst of the bunch (pg/f/C) and is truly the area that needs to be addressed. A real back up PG who can run a team, a solid f/c who can actually play and some reliable outside shooting and this is a legit squad.
          Chicago media reported the offer was on the table and up to Toronto to take it or leave it for Boozer/Robinson-Bargnani/Lucas.

          Comment


          • #20
            minks77 wrote: View Post
            We'll have to agree to disagree about his D. I think it's a joke and disagree that it was any better in clev or utah. Besides the Cavs days were a what 5 years ago? and in Utah he was hurt all the time (and sulking) and was not a good defender when he was healthy. Also, booz pouts and gives half assed effort so although he may be better than AB, his contract is a bitter, evil pill to swallow when you don't know which guy you'll be getting.

            As for amnestying AB, the idea is that just getting rid of him is better than the alt which is being stuck with him. No one is going to give you anyone much better (cap wise or talent wise) and if it costs a draft pick to get rid of AB thats a big hit. As long as AB is on the team the coaches will have to use him and I'm done with that. Addition through subtraction.
            Wow. Did Boozer do something to a female family member? For the record his former coaches certainly did not feel the same:

            Of course, Boozer’s injury-plagued past is why his legacy in Utah is tarnished — at least in the minds of many Jazz fans.
            During six seasons with the Jazz, Boozer earned two All-Star berths, played on the U.S. Olympic team and helped Utah reach the 2007 Western Conference finals.

            But those injuries ...

            In Utah, Boozer missed 138 of 492 regular-season games. He played as many as 74 games only three times. In the other three seasons, he played 51, 33 and 37 games.

            Still, Tyrone Corbin remains a Boozer fan, just as Jerry Sloan was when he coached the Jazz.

            "Great guy, great teammate, great guy to work with," Corbin said. "I spent a lot of time working with him. ... Just a great human being. We enjoyed the time we spent together."

            Asked about Boozer’s critics in Utah, Corbin shook his head.

            "I don’t know if the criticism was justified," he said. "But if you’re hurt, you’re hurt. What can you do? And I know he was hurt and always trying his hardest to get back. ...

            http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55...bulls.html.csp

            Cap wise and salary wise, Boozer is a step up from Bargnani.

            Comment


            • #21
              minks77 wrote: View Post
              Clearing the cabinets is easier said than done. You can't simply terminate contracts and trading in the NBA has always been difficult and is only getting harder as the CBA tightens up. No one seems to want Bargs. Gay is a massive cap hit. Demar is still a question mark when it comes to value for the money. It's nice to say "Blow it all up" but its really much harder to do.

              Also I think you are way off base saying that the team has no prospects. JV is definitely a bright light and a keeper that 29 other teams would take in a heartbeat. Ross isn't a washout yet and Lowry is still a very talented player on a relatively cheap ticket (as is Amir). The bench is awful and the most critical backups are the worst of the bunch (pg/f/C) and is truly the area that needs to be addressed. A real back up PG who can run a team, a solid f/c who can actually play and some reliable outside shooting and this is a legit squad.
              But how do you propose the Raptors acquire a legit backup PG, a PF/C that gets 20-25 minutes a night and at least one knock down shooter (who isn't a complete liability on D) this summer?

              You admit yourself that the Raptors have very little (zero really) movable assets that would interest other teams. The cap situation is well documented (they're screwed for 2 years). They have no first round pick this summer to address one of the needs (and no second rounders to boot; could have potentially addressed the shooter role with a 2nd).

              This isn't meant to be condescending, I promise. I just don't understand the thinking that this team is only a "couple pieces away" when there just doesn't seem to be a way to get those pieces.

              Comment


              • #22
                Brandon wrote:
                First of all, let me address how to clear the cupboards. If a player cannot be traded, wait until the contract is expiring and then trade him. Take on other teams' bad contracts if they send along some draft picks too. If JV can be traded for good draft assets now, then do it. He didn't prove anything in his rookie year. He's not another Dwight or something, so he's not as valuable as the picks might be.

                Second paragraph: this is the same bunch of whatifs and nonsense that has been said about the Raps for years -- they're just a good this and a good that away from being "a legit squad" -- you and I have a different definition of that term I think. No more true now than it was in the past.
                So basically your plan is to get rid of everybody for unknown returns, ideally to start fresh next offseason with no committed salary and several draft picks?

                The problem with that is that there's no guarantee that the cap space will lead to any significant free agents signing with the Raptors and there's no guarantee that the draft picks (even high lottery picks) will wind up being players any better than the players that the Raptors would be trading away. You're basically trading away one set of "whatifs and nonsense" for unknown "whatifs and nonsense" in the future. I'm sorry, but that's not a plan, just wishful thinking and frustration with the current team.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Can I moderate people that suggest trading JV for anyone other than Lebron James? Or is that an abuse of power?
                  For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Brandon wrote:
                    First of all, let me address how to clear the cupboards. If a player cannot be traded, wait until the contract is expiring and then trade him. Take on other teams' bad contracts if they send along some draft picks too. If JV can be traded for good draft assets now, then do it. He didn't prove anything in his rookie year. He's not another Dwight or something, so he's not as valuable as the picks might be.

                    Second paragraph: this is the same bunch of whatifs and nonsense that has been said about the Raps for years -- they're just a good this and a good that away from being "a legit squad" -- you and I have a different definition of that term I think. No more true now than it was in the past.
                    That's funny hahaha

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Brandon wrote:
                      First of all, let me address how to clear the cupboards. If a player cannot be traded, wait until the contract is expiring and then trade him. Take on other teams' bad contracts if they send along some draft picks too. If JV can be traded for good draft assets now, then do it. He didn't prove anything in his rookie year. He's not another Dwight or something, so he's not as valuable as the picks might be.

                      Second paragraph: this is the same bunch of whatifs and nonsense that has been said about the Raps for years -- they're just a good this and a good that away from being "a legit squad" -- you and I have a different definition of that term I think. No more true now than it was in the past.
                      Not as good as Howard, no, I'll give you that.

                      But he certainly had a much better rookie year than 4yr Georgetown product and 22 year old rookie Roy Hibbert and a very comparable rookie-to-Hibbert's 2nd year:

                      http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...36/roy-hibbert

                      The picks are a lottery ticket that might yield Wiggins or Bargnani.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Fully wrote: View Post
                        But how do you propose the Raptors acquire a legit backup PG, a PF/C that gets 20-25 minutes a night and at least one knock down shooter (who isn't a complete liability on D) this summer?

                        You admit yourself that the Raptors have very little (zero really) movable assets that would interest other teams. The cap situation is well documented (they're screwed for 2 years). They have no first round pick this summer to address one of the needs (and no second rounders to boot; could have potentially addressed the shooter role with a 2nd).

                        This isn't meant to be condescending, I promise. I just don't understand the thinking that this team is only a "couple pieces away" when there just doesn't seem to be a way to get those pieces.
                        a couple of pieces away from an 8th seed plateau. Not an ideal place but better than a late lottery pick. Just don't see how things could get any better with this core. We have very little leverage but thats never stopped BC. Gotta give him that.
                        LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          Wow. Did Boozer do something to a female family member? For the record his former coaches certainly did not feel the same:

                          Of course, Boozer’s injury-plagued past is why his legacy in Utah is tarnished — at least in the minds of many Jazz fans.



                          Cap wise and salary wise, Boozer is a step up from Bargnani.

                          I don't like him, he's not that great and you seem very pissed. I wasn't terribly tactful about how I derided the stats comparison of booz and AD, I stand by my opinion though. Is that what got you riled up? I don't think you've ever been this pissy with me.

                          How is booz a step up Salary or cap wise? AB is owed 21.5 over the next 2 seasons, second has an ETO. Booz is owed 32.1 guaranteed over the same two years.

                          Booz is better than AB, don't get me wrong. But the questions surrounding him are legit. He has been said to not play hard, He has frustrated coaches and teammates. A lot of people in Utah questioned his effort and not just fans. It's commonly held truth that he reneged on a "gentleman's" agreement in Cleveland. Although I can't blame him for taking the money it does call his character into doubt. He has a legit injury history. All that said he is still better than AB.

                          But he is not good enough to get us into elite territory. In Chi not only does he have one of the best coaches in the league but you skim over Noah who has had a terrific year (DPOY, imo) and an All Star talent in Deng. Yes they've been banged up but it's not all super booz carrying this shell of a team home. Oh and just because the media reports an unfounded rumour doesn't mean the deal was actually ever close to being a real thing. I mean on the surface it doesn't make sense on any trade machine out there.

                          I believe that AB, BC and likely DC all need to be gone. If we're going to be bad we need to sit tight, shed some salary wherever possible (even just by waiting some out) and be bad properly for a change.
                          LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            minks77 wrote: View Post
                            I don't like him, he's not that great and you seem very pissed. I wasn't terribly tactful about how I derided the stats comparison of booz and AD, I stand by my opinion though. Is that what got you riled up? I don't think you've ever been this pissy with me.

                            How is booz a step up Salary or cap wise? AB is owed 21.5 over the next 2 seasons, second has an ETO. Booz is owed 32.1 guaranteed over the same two years.

                            Booz is better than AB, don't get me wrong. But the questions surrounding him are legit. He has been said to not play hard, He has frustrated coaches and teammates. A lot of people in Utah questioned his effort and not just fans. It's commonly held truth that he reneged on a "gentleman's" agreement in Cleveland. Although I can't blame him for taking the money it does call his character into doubt. He has a legit injury history. All that said he is still better than AB.

                            But he is not good enough to get us into elite territory. In Chi not only does he have one of the best coaches in the league but you skim over Noah who has had a terrific year (DPOY, imo) and an All Star talent in Deng. Yes they've been banged up but it's not all super booz carrying this shell of a team home. Oh and just because the media reports an unfounded rumour doesn't mean the deal was actually ever close to being a real thing. I mean on the surface it doesn't make sense on any trade machine out there.

                            I believe that AB, BC and likely DC all need to be gone. If we're going to be bad we need to sit tight, shed some salary wherever possible (even just by waiting some out) and be bad properly for a change.
                            Not the greatest day yesterday - sorry that carried on to RR, minks.

                            AB's contract is a player option. I don't see him passing up $12M given his play.

                            Boozer may or may not have his character flaws but they are based on rumours and fan perceptions in Utah. I am not sure how much validity they carry.

                            You are correct on the other talent Chicago has. But down the home stretch of the season, it has been Boozer carrying them. Noah has missed 12 of last 14 games.

                            I give credit to media report because it was Chicago media leaking it. In the trade machine Boozer/Robinson for Bargnani/JL3 did work.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Its hard to tell but I wonder how Bargnani feels after 7 years here being a non factor watching the team be a better squad without him? wonder what goes through his head..

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Brandon wrote:
                                First of all, let me address how to clear the cupboards. If a player cannot be traded, wait until the contract is expiring and then trade him. Take on other teams' bad contracts if they send along some draft picks too. If JV can be traded for good draft assets now, then do it. He didn't prove anything in his rookie year. He's not another Dwight or something, so he's not as valuable as the picks might be.

                                Second paragraph: this is the same bunch of whatifs and nonsense that has been said about the Raps for years -- they're just a good this and a good that away from being "a legit squad" -- you and I have a different definition of that term I think. No more true now than it was in the past.
                                WHAT.

                                He was the best thing to come out of this season. Please get your head fixed.
                                Twitter - @thekid_it

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X