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HoopsWorld: Raps Still Hoping to Trade Bargnani/BC Fluff

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  • mcHAPPY
    started a topic HoopsWorld: Raps Still Hoping to Trade Bargnani/BC Fluff

    HoopsWorld: Raps Still Hoping to Trade Bargnani/BC Fluff

    Written by Bill Ingram and not regular Raptor scribe Stephen Brotherston. Worth the click. I only too Colangelo's quotes. Ingram seems pretty optimistic on the Raptors - that or it was a condition of the interview... "Spin me positively, Billy!"

    “We really struggled out of the gate, going 4-19,” Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo explains to HOOPSWORLD. “You can probably pinpoint many reasons for the bad start…schedule, injuries, inexperience, a few league-acknowledged bad calls, but lack of execution was a primary cause. Since then we have gone 28-29, which is a pretty dramatic swing, but the hole we dug early was a little too deep. You add to that a significant in-season trade that completely changed the dynamic of the team and you are practically asking for inconsistency. A lot was thrown at this team and this staff this year, but they never stopped fighting.”
    “Even better than expected,” says Colangelo of his rookie. “He began the year coming off a two-and-a-half-year stretch without even a day off. He was likely a little overwhelmed at first with his new surroundings, unfamiliar basketball terminology and ideals, but his injury turned out to be a blessing in disguise. He was able to take a breath and see things from a different perspective. He came back more poised, more deliberate. The game really seemed to slow down for him and he seems much more comfortable on the court. His Rookie of the Month award for March speaks to his rapid development and progress as the year has passed. He’s a wonderful young man, a tremendously hard worker and a budding future star. If I were a stock analyst I would definitely rate him a BUY.”
    “We obviously had some frank discussions with Andrea and his agent that a change of scenery might benefit everyone, but his two random and unrelated elbow injuries dismissed whatever trade scenarios were being contemplated,” Colangelo explains. “With the timing of his injuries, we simply just ran out of runway prior to the trade deadline. As far as value, I would disagree [that his is low], good size-to-skill ratio is a commodity in this league, especially the way the game is trending. If Andrea stays, however, I’m hoping [head coach Dwane] Case[y] can find a way to duplicate his tremendous start to the 11-12 campaign, where he was performing at an All-Star level on both ends of the floor.”
    “We gave up a protected first (1-3) for Kyle Lowry and our second in the Rudy Gay trade, so realistically we may have to sit this one out,” says Colangelo. “Given the underwhelming depth and strength of this draft and the fact that we are currently developing three promising rookies in Jonas Valanciunas, Terrence Ross and Quincy Acy, we are not overly concerned about that. If there was ever a year to not have a pick, this is the one. Having said that, if we move up in the lottery and end up with a top pick, we do like a few guys on the board.”
    “Very clearly, veteran presence and leadership will go a long way in rounding out our very young nucleus,” says Colangelo. “We can certainly add some mental and physical toughness to our mix too. A full training camp will obviously help everyone, but I do really like the talent level of the young core we have in place. Of course, we need to add a piece or two to the mix, but we should get appreciably better with our efforts of growing organically.”
    The core group in Toronto is impressive, even more impressive than the one that had most of us believing the team would make the playoffs this season. Despite their struggles of late, there’s every reason to believe that with a couple of tweaks this team should be right back in the playoff chase next season.
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-rap...rade-bargnani?

    Really? Shit man, I've seen this movie before and the ending always sucks. As an eternal optimist for years on Toronto, I might be the best contrarian indicator going. I feel absolutely little to no optimism when it comes to anything associated with Toronto outside of Valanciuanas. Maybe they'll turn it around next year after all.

    Boozer for Bargnani and a pick.... make it happen Bryan.

  • blackjitsu
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I agree with your points about Garbo & AP, but your info about Amir is wrong. He was acquired (along with Sonny Weems, who was a throw-in) by Toronto in a trade for Carlos Delfino (refused to re-sign for less than MLE and I hated to see him go because of his chemistry on 2nd unit with Calderon) & Roko Ukic.
    Ah. My bad. But that still feels like a small move to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Please don't take this personal, but moves involving first round draft picks, or pseudo stars cannot be constituted as "small, smart" moves. Getting gems like Garbo, Amir, AP those do. None were considered stars or highly recruited potential players when they came. They were just players who fit and played above public expectations. Garbo and AP were given smallish contracts while Amir was a throw-in in the CV trade. These are the types of moves that turn a loser like the Raps into a legit team. To become a great team you need stars-- yes. But to be a solid team it's all about the supporting cast.

    The Raps have 2 years to build a winning culture by making the playoffs twice before they have the financial flexibility to woo a potential star. Maybe Val becomes that star and it's all a moot point. However, my point is that small, non-glamorous moves need to be made. Not big splash, trade talent while keeping mediocre players, getting/losing lottery draft picks... moves.

    BC throws 2nd round draft picks into trades like they're cookies. That's not the guy I want as a fan making the type of moves needed.
    I agree with your points about Garbo & AP, but your info about Amir is wrong. He was acquired (along with Sonny Weems, who was a throw-in) by Toronto in a trade for Carlos Delfino (refused to re-sign for less than MLE and I hated to see him go because of his chemistry on 2nd unit with Calderon) & Roko Ukic.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackjitsu
    replied
    enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Drafting Val, Derozan, Ed Davis
    Trading for Gay
    Picking up Lowry for what looks like the 12th overall pick
    Getting rid of Hedo

    Albeit there were many bad moves, he has had some success in the draft and making sneaky trades.
    Please don't take this personal, but moves involving first round draft picks, or pseudo stars cannot be constituted as "small, smart" moves. Getting gems like Garbo, Amir, AP those do. None were considered stars or highly recruited potential players when they came. They were just players who fit and played above public expectations. Garbo and AP were given smallish contracts while Amir was a throw-in in the CV trade. These are the types of moves that turn a loser like the Raps into a legit team. To become a great team you need stars-- yes. But to be a solid team it's all about the supporting cast.

    The Raps have 2 years to build a winning culture by making the playoffs twice before they have the financial flexibility to woo a potential star. Maybe Val becomes that star and it's all a moot point. However, my point is that small, non-glamorous moves need to be made. Not big splash, trade talent while keeping mediocre players, getting/losing lottery draft picks... moves.

    BC throws 2nd round draft picks into trades like they're cookies. That's not the guy I want as a fan making the type of moves needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Drafting Val, Derozan, Ed Davis
    Trading for Gay
    Picking up Lowry for what looks like the 12th overall pick
    Getting rid of Hedo

    Albeit there were many bad moves, he has had some success in the draft and making sneaky trades.
    Those weren't the small type moves that the Raptors are going to have to make to round out the roster barring some substantial trades.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheGloveinRapsUniform
    replied
    Since the pieces are all here anyways, why not see what they can do together with a full training camp and practices?

    Get that legit PF in and backup PG and build chemistry towards next season.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    enlightenment wrote: View Post
    How in the WORLD did Roy Hibbert make the All-Star team with those numbers? Holy crap. Val can make it next year if given the minutes..
    The key to getting into the all-star team is to play for a team that wins. Indiana wins games, Toronto does not. If the Raptors produced a winning team then Gay and JV would be considered for the team. If they lose as much as they did this year then they won't have a shot, unless they are blowing away their competition statistically which is a hard task.

    Leave a comment:


  • Letter N
    replied
    enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Drafting Val, Derozan, Ed Davis
    Trading for Gay
    Picking up Lowry for what looks like the 12th overall pick
    Getting rid of Hedo

    Albeit there were many bad moves, he has had some success in the draft and making sneaky trades.
    You're looking at the trees but missing the forest.*








    *The forest is nicknamed Perennial Loser by the locals

    Leave a comment:


  • enlightenment
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've finally come around to moving on from Colangelo but credit should be given where due. He has made a few small smart moves in his time here. Parker, Garbo, Amir come immediately to mind.
    Drafting Val, Derozan, Ed Davis
    Trading for Gay
    Picking up Lowry for what looks like the 12th overall pick
    Getting rid of Hedo

    Albeit there were many bad moves, he has had some success in the draft and making sneaky trades.

    Leave a comment:


  • enlightenment
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Not as good as Howard, no, I'll give you that.

    But he certainly had a much better rookie year than 4yr Georgetown product and 22 year old rookie Roy Hibbert and a very comparable rookie-to-Hibbert's 2nd year:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...36/roy-hibbert

    The picks are a lottery ticket that might yield Wiggins or Bargnani.
    How in the WORLD did Roy Hibbert make the All-Star team with those numbers? Holy crap. Val can make it next year if given the minutes..

    Leave a comment:


  • blackjitsu
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've finally come around to moving on from Colangelo but credit should be given where due. He has made a few small smart moves in his time here. Parker, Garbo, Amir come immediately to mind.
    I hear you, but those moves were made 5+ seasons ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    How do you get a legit backup PG, and a PF/C? It's not a glamorous job. To do it, a team needs to have a strong scouting team.

    For this role a team should particularly looking at 3rd NBA PGs with expiring contracts who are available, and probably Dleague starters. In the past what the Raps have done has been to bring in high scoring PGs like Lucas or that kid who got a trip doub before they cut him during the summer. Things they need to look for instead of scoring:

    1/ability to defend multiple positions
    2/" " " run an offence

    Neither of these two things have been given a priority with Colangelo, but the players are out there because these types of players are only given priority by the Spurs.

    PFs? Probably have to look for vets in Europe. Can't be a guy like Kleiza, but rather a low usage solid post player.

    That's how it's done. I don't think Colangelo is capable of small, smart moves though.
    I've finally come around to moving on from Colangelo but credit should be given where due. He has made a few small smart moves in his time here. Parker, Garbo, Amir come immediately to mind.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackjitsu
    replied
    Fully wrote: View Post
    But how do you propose the Raptors acquire a legit backup PG, a PF/C that gets 20-25 minutes a night and at least one knock down shooter (who isn't a complete liability on D) this summer?
    How do you get a legit backup PG, and a PF/C? It's not a glamorous job. To do it, a team needs to have a strong scouting team.

    For this role a team should particularly looking at 3rd NBA PGs with expiring contracts who are available, and probably Dleague starters. In the past what the Raps have done has been to bring in high scoring PGs like Lucas or that kid who got a trip doub before they cut him during the summer. Things they need to look for instead of scoring:

    1/ability to defend multiple positions
    2/" " " run an offence

    Neither of these two things have been given a priority with Colangelo, but the players are out there because these types of players are only given priority by the Spurs.

    PFs? Probably have to look for vets in Europe. Can't be a guy like Kleiza, but rather a low usage solid post player.

    That's how it's done. I don't think Colangelo is capable of small, smart moves though.

    Leave a comment:


  • white men can't jump
    replied
    Brandon wrote:
    First of all, let me address how to clear the cupboards. If a player cannot be traded, wait until the contract is expiring and then trade him. Take on other teams' bad contracts if they send along some draft picks too. If JV can be traded for good draft assets now, then do it. He didn't prove anything in his rookie year. He's not another Dwight or something, so he's not as valuable as the picks might be.

    Second paragraph: this is the same bunch of whatifs and nonsense that has been said about the Raps for years -- they're just a good this and a good that away from being "a legit squad" -- you and I have a different definition of that term I think. No more true now than it was in the past.
    JV will be a top 5, if not top 3 C for about a decade. Get your eyes examined.

    Leave a comment:


  • isaacthompson
    replied
    Brandon wrote:
    First of all, let me address how to clear the cupboards. If a player cannot be traded, wait until the contract is expiring and then trade him. Take on other teams' bad contracts if they send along some draft picks too. If JV can be traded for good draft assets now, then do it. He didn't prove anything in his rookie year. He's not another Dwight or something, so he's not as valuable as the picks might be.

    Second paragraph: this is the same bunch of whatifs and nonsense that has been said about the Raps for years -- they're just a good this and a good that away from being "a legit squad" -- you and I have a different definition of that term I think. No more true now than it was in the past.
    WHAT.

    He was the best thing to come out of this season. Please get your head fixed.

    Leave a comment:

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