HoopsWorld: Raps Still Hoping to Trade Bargnani/BC Fluff

[blackjitsu]

I agree with your points about Garbo & AP, but your info about Amir is wrong. He was acquired (along with Sonny Weems, who was a throw-in) by Toronto in a trade for Carlos Delfino (refused to re-sign for less than MLE and I hated to see him go because of his chemistry on 2nd unit with Calderon) & Roko Ukic.

Ah. My bad. But that still feels like a small move to me.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Please don't take this personal, but moves involving first round draft picks, or pseudo stars cannot be constituted as "small, smart" moves. Getting gems like Garbo, Amir, AP those do. None were considered stars or highly recruited potential players when they came. They were just players who fit and played above public expectations. Garbo and AP were given smallish contracts while Amir was a throw-in in the CV trade. These are the types of moves that turn a loser like the Raps into a legit team. To become a great team you need stars-- yes. But to be a solid team it's all about the supporting cast.

The Raps have 2 years to build a winning culture by making the playoffs twice before they have the financial flexibility to woo a potential star. Maybe Val becomes that star and it's all a moot point. However, my point is that small, non-glamorous moves need to be made. Not big splash, trade talent while keeping mediocre players, getting/losing lottery draft picks... moves.

BC throws 2nd round draft picks into trades like they're cookies. That's not the guy I want as a fan making the type of moves needed.

I agree with your points about Garbo & AP, but your info about Amir is wrong. He was acquired (along with Sonny Weems, who was a throw-in) by Toronto in a trade for Carlos Delfino (refused to re-sign for less than MLE and I hated to see him go because of his chemistry on 2nd unit with Calderon) & Roko Ukic.

[blackjitsu]

Drafting Val, Derozan, Ed Davis
Trading for Gay
Picking up Lowry for what looks like the 12th overall pick
Getting rid of Hedo

Albeit there were many bad moves, he has had some success in the draft and making sneaky trades.

Please don't take this personal, but moves involving first round draft picks, or pseudo stars cannot be constituted as "small, smart" moves. Getting gems like Garbo, Amir, AP those do. None were considered stars or highly recruited potential players when they came. They were just players who fit and played above public expectations. Garbo and AP were given smallish contracts while Amir was a throw-in in the CV trade. These are the types of moves that turn a loser like the Raps into a legit team. To become a great team you need stars-- yes. But to be a solid team it's all about the supporting cast.

The Raps have 2 years to build a winning culture by making the playoffs twice before they have the financial flexibility to woo a potential star. Maybe Val becomes that star and it's all a moot point. However, my point is that small, non-glamorous moves need to be made. Not big splash, trade talent while keeping mediocre players, getting/losing lottery draft picks... moves.

BC throws 2nd round draft picks into trades like they're cookies. That's not the guy I want as a fan making the type of moves needed.

[mcHAPPY]

Drafting Val, Derozan, Ed Davis
Trading for Gay
Picking up Lowry for what looks like the 12th overall pick
Getting rid of Hedo

Albeit there were many bad moves, he has had some success in the draft and making sneaky trades.

Those weren't the small type moves that the Raptors are going to have to make to round out the roster barring some substantial trades.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Since the pieces are all here anyways, why not see what they can do together with a full training camp and practices?

Get that legit PF in and backup PG and build chemistry towards next season.

[planetmars]

How in the WORLD did Roy Hibbert make the All-Star team with those numbers? Holy crap. Val can make it next year if given the minutes..

The key to getting into the all-star team is to play for a team that wins. Indiana wins games, Toronto does not. If the Raptors produced a winning team then Gay and JV would be considered for the team. If they lose as much as they did this year then they won't have a shot, unless they are blowing away their competition statistically which is a hard task.

[Letter N]

Drafting Val, Derozan, Ed Davis
Trading for Gay
Picking up Lowry for what looks like the 12th overall pick
Getting rid of Hedo

Albeit there were many bad moves, he has had some success in the draft and making sneaky trades.

You're looking at the trees but missing the forest.*








*The forest is nicknamed Perennial Loser by the locals

[enlightenment]

I've finally come around to moving on from Colangelo but credit should be given where due. He has made a few small smart moves in his time here. Parker, Garbo, Amir come immediately to mind.

Drafting Val, Derozan, Ed Davis
Trading for Gay
Picking up Lowry for what looks like the 12th overall pick
Getting rid of Hedo

Albeit there were many bad moves, he has had some success in the draft and making sneaky trades.

[enlightenment]

Not as good as Howard, no, I'll give you that.

But he certainly had a much better rookie year than 4yr Georgetown product and 22 year old rookie Roy Hibbert and a very comparable rookie-to-Hibbert's 2nd year:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/...36/roy-hibbert

The picks are a lottery ticket that might yield Wiggins or Bargnani.

How in the WORLD did Roy Hibbert make the All-Star team with those numbers? Holy crap. Val can make it next year if given the minutes..

[blackjitsu]

I've finally come around to moving on from Colangelo but credit should be given where due. He has made a few small smart moves in his time here. Parker, Garbo, Amir come immediately to mind.

I hear you, but those moves were made 5+ seasons ago.

[mcHAPPY]

How do you get a legit backup PG, and a PF/C? It's not a glamorous job. To do it, a team needs to have a strong scouting team.

For this role a team should particularly looking at 3rd NBA PGs with expiring contracts who are available, and probably Dleague starters. In the past what the Raps have done has been to bring in high scoring PGs like Lucas or that kid who got a trip doub before they cut him during the summer. Things they need to look for instead of scoring:

1/ability to defend multiple positions
2/" " " run an offence

Neither of these two things have been given a priority with Colangelo, but the players are out there because these types of players are only given priority by the Spurs.

PFs? Probably have to look for vets in Europe. Can't be a guy like Kleiza, but rather a low usage solid post player.

That's how it's done. I don't think Colangelo is capable of small, smart moves though.

I've finally come around to moving on from Colangelo but credit should be given where due. He has made a few small smart moves in his time here. Parker, Garbo, Amir come immediately to mind.

[blackjitsu]

But how do you propose the Raptors acquire a legit backup PG, a PF/C that gets 20-25 minutes a night and at least one knock down shooter (who isn't a complete liability on D) this summer?

How do you get a legit backup PG, and a PF/C? It's not a glamorous job. To do it, a team needs to have a strong scouting team.

For this role a team should particularly looking at 3rd NBA PGs with expiring contracts who are available, and probably Dleague starters. In the past what the Raps have done has been to bring in high scoring PGs like Lucas or that kid who got a trip doub before they cut him during the summer. Things they need to look for instead of scoring:

1/ability to defend multiple positions
2/" " " run an offence

Neither of these two things have been given a priority with Colangelo, but the players are out there because these types of players are only given priority by the Spurs.

PFs? Probably have to look for vets in Europe. Can't be a guy like Kleiza, but rather a low usage solid post player.

That's how it's done. I don't think Colangelo is capable of small, smart moves though.

[white men can't jump]

First of all, let me address how to clear the cupboards. If a player cannot be traded, wait until the contract is expiring and then trade him. Take on other teams' bad contracts if they send along some draft picks too. If JV can be traded for good draft assets now, then do it. He didn't prove anything in his rookie year. He's not another Dwight or something, so he's not as valuable as the picks might be.

Second paragraph: this is the same bunch of whatifs and nonsense that has been said about the Raps for years -- they're just a good this and a good that away from being "a legit squad" -- you and I have a different definition of that term I think. No more true now than it was in the past.

JV will be a top 5, if not top 3 C for about a decade. Get your eyes examined.

[isaacthompson]

First of all, let me address how to clear the cupboards. If a player cannot be traded, wait until the contract is expiring and then trade him. Take on other teams' bad contracts if they send along some draft picks too. If JV can be traded for good draft assets now, then do it. He didn't prove anything in his rookie year. He's not another Dwight or something, so he's not as valuable as the picks might be.

Second paragraph: this is the same bunch of whatifs and nonsense that has been said about the Raps for years -- they're just a good this and a good that away from being "a legit squad" -- you and I have a different definition of that term I think. No more true now than it was in the past.

WHAT.

He was the best thing to come out of this season. Please get your head fixed.

[Rapstor4Life]

Its hard to tell but I wonder how Bargnani feels after 7 years here being a non factor watching the team be a better squad without him? wonder what goes through his head..