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Bill Simmons: NBA Trade Value

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  • #76
    NoBan wrote: View Post
    Let's nail down a comp for best-case-scenario JV. I'm thinking the skill set needs to be similar to what I mentioned above:

    DPOY candidacy (Noah, Gasol?)
    Great screen and roller (much less athletic Amare?)
    Double team necessity in low post (Big Al?)

    Am I missing a major piece of the skill set?

    Again, this isn't "most likely", it's "very best" case scenario. It's gotta be somebody with a ton of tools but not somebody that's gonna be top 3-5 MVP (prime Howard is too optimistic, imo). There's a lot of guys here that know NBA history better than me, anybody got a decent comp?
    Robert Parish?
    Last edited by NoPropsneeded; Sat Apr 20th, 2013, 04:09 PM.

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    • #77
      I also don't think Hibbert is a very good comparison. You also have to consider things like motor and development. I don't like the Parish comparison either. His numbers are deceptive because of how dominant Boston was, but he was not the guy you went to for a play in the post.

      Trying to think of a comparison for Jonas is hard. He's got a lot of qualities that make you think of different bigs. For me, one guy he reminds me of, and I think in many ways is a good comparison, is Alonzo Mourning, who frankly in his prime would be the 2nd best C today behind a healthy Howard. A big who plays with a lot of intensity. Provides lane intimidation both with strength and length. Rebounds the ball. Has a versatile offensive game where he can both backdown and face up. I think both their games have a good mix of strength, finesse and athleticisim, with JV having probably a bit more finesse and a bit less athleticisim, but also having more size. I see that comparison increasingly becoming JV's worst case in my eyes.

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      • #78
        NoBan wrote: View Post
        Translation: Oh ya, well how do you know??



        Translation: I dont have a counterpoint beyond my first reply, so I'm withdrawing.



        I think you can do better my friend.
        You just make a presumptuous statement without providing any evidence and somehow want me to provide the evidence to the contrary because I ask for evidence. I'm not going to take the trouble; it's like arguing with people who claim there is a giant green smurf who created the universe and expect the others to disprove it. It's unreasonable.

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        • #79
          NoBan wrote: View Post
          Let's nail down a comp for best-case-scenario JV. I'm thinking the skill set needs to be similar to what I mentioned above:

          DPOY candidacy (Noah, Gasol?)
          Great screen and roller (much less athletic Amare?)
          Double team necessity in low post (Big Al?)

          Am I missing a major piece of the skill set?

          Again, this isn't "most likely", it's "very best" case scenario. It's gotta be somebody with a ton of tools but not somebody that's gonna be top 3-5 MVP (prime Howard is too optimistic, imo). There's a lot of guys here that know NBA history better than me, anybody got a decent comp?
          I think its the Gasol bros. Marc is the closest .. his game also has some similarities to Pau also. I think Marc is the most likely upside (which is pretty damn good btw .. hes the best center in the game right now).

          Not sure his defense will ever get as good as Marc's .. but his ability to bang is similar. He also has a better jump shooting touch and is arguably a better PNR guy. Marc's all around game is obviously very superior today .. but in terms of a comp, I think thats the best one.
          Last edited by mountio; Sat Apr 20th, 2013, 06:45 PM.

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          • #80
            NoBan wrote: View Post
            Good point. I made the leap to "hung up" based on Simmons' phrasing. I still think it's ridiculous to take the centrepiece of a potential franchise shifting trade off the table without significant internal deliberation. Again, perhaps those discussions did take place, but Simmons' presentation suggests the opposite, and BC hasn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt based on track record.
            Well let's look at it this way: the Raptors weren't the only one to "quickly rebuff" Sam Presti. The Wizards are another one.

            A person with knowledge of Oklahoma City’s interest in Beal said the Wizards’ decision to hold on to Beal made sense because teams are often willing to trade draft picks but are more inclined to keep players once they’ve been selected.
            Source: http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...ington-wizards

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            • #81
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              I also don't think Hibbert is a very good comparison. You also have to consider things like motor and development. I don't like the Parish comparison either. His numbers are deceptive because of how dominant Boston was, but he was not the guy you went to for a play in the post.

              Trying to think of a comparison for Jonas is hard. He's got a lot of qualities that make you think of different bigs. For me, one guy he reminds me of, and I think in many ways is a good comparison, is Alonzo Mourning, who frankly in his prime would be the 2nd best C today behind a healthy Howard. A big who plays with a lot of intensity. Provides lane intimidation both with strength and length. Rebounds the ball. Has a versatile offensive game where he can both backdown and face up. I think both their games have a good mix of strength, finesse and athleticisim, with JV having probably a bit more finesse and a bit less athleticisim, but also having more size. I see that comparison increasingly becoming JV's worst case in my eyes.
              I was thinking Alonzo too but i haven't seen enough of him to really make a comparison. Robert parish, i just kinda randomly threw out there

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              • #82
                After watching a full season of Jonas, I would say he reminds me of Andrew Bynum in some ways -- good lane presence, keeps hands up, uses elbows well; but with more finesse & mobility that reminds me of Pau Gasol, especially with the lefty hooks. Similar to those two guys, Valanciunas sags off when guarding the pick & roll because of the lack of mobility -- so guards tend to go around him & he tries to make up with his length.

                He's a real post presence on the block which is very promising but defensively, he struggles against smaller guards & especially in pick and roll coverage. I mentioned Bynum first since Valanciunas is not as skilled as Gasol (yet...?) in terms of passing, finesse. But his ability to hit mid range jumpers & play more in the high post is the reason why I mentioned Gasol soon after.

                Either way, I think those are 2 good comparables & which is why I'm very high on Jonas after his first season -- at 20 years old. Once he bulks up, slow down his pace, develop more skills & react better on rotations, I have full confidence that he will be putting up all-star center numbers.

                I think he will be an all-star either on his 4th year or soon after his rookie deal expires PROVIDED the Raptors are in the playoff chase unless he regresses dramatically -- which I don't think will happen barring injuries.
                “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

                -- Charles Barkley

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                • #83
                  NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                  I was thinking Alonzo too but i haven't seen enough of him to really make a comparison. Robert parish, i just kinda randomly threw out there
                  It's hard to find a good comparison among old guys...because when you go to look for highlights of old bigs, it's mostly blocks and dunks. Still, for intensity and variety of skills I think Mourning is a good comparison. Mourning was quicker and a bit shorter, with more range, but by his 5th or 6th year, he had settled into really just playing C, whereas he was a F/C before that. So it's not a perfect comparison by any means.

                  Like I said, JV's bigger and a bit smoother than Mourning (close to the basket), so maybe throw in some Pau qualities, and JV also definitely knows how to use his size, much like Marc or Bynum.
                  Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Apr 21st, 2013, 09:27 AM.

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