HoopsWorld.com: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

[ebrian]

The 2nd part yes, I just disagreed that Bosh is always called out as being not worth a max contract.

No, I definitely agree that he is worth it. As in, no one else in the league at that time would question giving him a max contract. Like I said, I don't think that part is Colangelo's fault -- he was just unlucky. The unlucky part being that Glen Grunwald wasn't picking first overall in the 2003 NBA Draft.

[special1]

Of course they should fire him. Why is this still a question anymore?

I'm tired of hearing the same reasons for keeping him:

He's a PR whiz! You know what else is good for PR? Winning.
He's a "mover and shaker" in the basketball world! When has this ever actually worked to the advantage of Toronto? And don't say the Rudy Gay trade... Memphis was shopping him around to half the league but no one was willing to eat the salary
The organization needs continuity! 7 years in and some people are still worried about pulling the rug out from underneath him? How long should he realistically get to produce even an average team? A decade?

please see above

Why is this still a question?? Are we all effin losers in Toronto?? If so, we deserve BC. Can you imagine if BC was hired by LA or Boston, or even New York??? Matter of fact - If BC was the GM for any other team, HE would've been fired at least 4 years ago! I don't understand it..... Is it a Canadian thing?? Are we just too nice? Get this loser out of here.

[Letter N]

I'm not sure if you realize that your opinion is exactly the same as mine.

The 2nd part yes, I just disagreed that Bosh is always called out as being not worth a max contract.

[ebrian]

I disagree with this, lots of players (I'd say around 20-25 players) deserve max contracts because max contracts have a cap. Lebron probably deserves $30 mil a season but it's not allowed, so he gets his 16.5 and the guy that deserves 20 gets his 16.5 and the guy that deserves 16.5 gets 16.5 as well.

Bosh deserved (and still does) max because again he's better than the amount that max contracts pay, he's just not one of the 4 guys in the league that can take you far in the playoffs without a great coach and great supporting staff. BC's failing wasn't in believing in Bosh, it was in not making the team good enough to allow him to win in the playoffs while he was here.

I'm not sure if you realize that your opinion is exactly the same as mine.

[Letter N]

In the NBA, only 4-5 guys actually deserve the max contract. As in, a player who will eat up this much of your overall salary and will actually deliver. But inevitably there will be 10-15 guys who end up getting it, and still another 10-15 guys who think they deserve it and get pretty close to it. If you're in Camp B, then you're just one of the unlucky few who ended up with a guy, either through draft or trade or inherited when you got hired, that will get the max (no one will question it), but that player will never take you anywhere.

Even if you know that player won't take you anywhere, it won't matter because he's taken such a huge chunk of your payroll that you have no other choice but to build around that player.

I disagree with this, lots of players (I'd say around 20-25 players) deserve max contracts because max contracts have a cap. Lebron probably deserves $30 mil a season but it's not allowed, so he gets his 16.5 and the guy that deserves 20 gets his 16.5 and the guy that deserves 16.5 gets 16.5 as well.

Bosh deserved (and still does) max because again he's better than the amount that max contracts pay, he's just not one of the 4 guys in the league that can take you far in the playoffs without a great coach and great supporting staff. BC's failing wasn't in believing in Bosh, it was in not making the team good enough to allow him to win in the playoffs while he was here.

[ebrian]

If MLSE had decided to go a different route and hire someone else two years ago, it would have made sense. Instead they chose to extend him and allow him to rebuild. When they did so, it was clear what was going to happen. After allowing him to rebuild so far, which was why he got an extension, it makes no sense to fire him. I'm not suggesting that he gets another extension but it only makes sense to pick up his option year. If the team still fails to at least make the play-offs, then don't extend him and start afresh. I know it's frustrating to wait another year but it's the only sensible thing to do IMO.

I don't understand this perspective. Do you think Colangelo has developed a trojan horse virus, where he will activate the minute he gets fired, and when the next GM who is hired tries to check out our roster, the files will become corrupt and unreadable? Perhaps you think the payroll records, and all the statistics recorded by statisticians and SportsVU will suddenly become locked and only Colangelo has the key? And then they will have to call Colangelo and beg him to unlock the secrets on how to run a franchise properly?

[Letter N]

This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; it’s time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks.

Late to the party but....

They want continuity by keeping around a GM that changes players every time he gets a haircut? I bet anything that over the last 7 years we have had more players on our roster than any other team in the league, and I can't imagine it even being close.

[ebrian]

I'd be ok with Colangelo around for another year if he actually showed the ability to learn from his mistakes. But he doesn't.

- He incorrectly pegged Bosh as a franchise player to be built around, and then repeated the mistake with Bargnani.

I actually think that the Bosh situation has a lot to do with luck. Every GM has to face the same sort of thing, it just depends on what falls into your lap at the time, and how much resources you have to work with.

In the NBA, only 4-5 guys actually deserve the max contract. As in, a player who will eat up this much of your overall salary and will actually deliver. But inevitably there will be 10-15 guys who end up getting it, and still another 10-15 guys who think they deserve it and get pretty close to it. If you're in Camp B, then you're just one of the unlucky few who ended up with a guy, either through draft or trade or inherited when you got hired, that will get the max (no one will question it), but that player will never take you anywhere.

Even if you know that player won't take you anywhere, it won't matter because he's taken such a huge chunk of your payroll that you have no other choice but to build around that player.

[c_bcm]

I'd be ok with Colangelo around for another year if he actually showed the ability to learn from his mistakes. But he doesn't.

- He incorrectly pegged Bosh as a franchise player to be built around, and then repeated the mistake with Bargnani.
- He competed against nobody by signing Bargnani to an extension, then repeated the mistake with DeRozan.
- He gave the head coaching reigns to an unproven/inexperienced coach in Triano, and then repeated the mistake with Casey.

I'm going to guess that Colangelo doesn't magically figure out how to build a winner anytime soon. It'll be more of the same next year....and not a single (sane) person will be surprised.

Why isn't Bosh a franchise player? He's a top 20 player, there are 30 teams in the league. Is it the idea of "Franchise player" that needs revisiting? The old pattern of team-building is to get the best player on your team surrounded by players that complement them. But I think this falls apart when the supporting players don't complement each other as much as they complement the "franchise player". I would have to disagree with you on Bargs, I don't think he was ever labelled as a franchise player. He was certainly the best player on the team in 2011/2012, but its not like that tenure lasted long enough to try a build a team around him.

[planetmars]

I've always been 50/50 on Colangelo, but once he gave DeMar that extension, it was it for me. DeMar is a nice guy, and wish him a lot of success, but there was absolutely no reason to give him an extension that early and for that value. It was mind boggling at the time, and actually quite embarrassing.

Outside of that extension you have 5 years without playoffs; the mishandling of Bosh; over valued contracts; and no concrete vision (for example, he tanks hard one year only to go all in for playoffs the next season and fail).

This guy had cap space, a perennial all-star on the roster, and a #1 pick. He has 2 playoff losses in 7 years to show for it and as a team 8th worst in win/loss percentage for the pass 7 years. He's mediocre at being mediocre. He has failed. He does not deserve another year.

[Eric Akshinthala]

If MLSE had decided to go a different route and hire someone else two years ago, it would have made sense. Instead they chose to extend him and allow him to rebuild. When they did so, it was clear what was going to happen. After allowing him to rebuild so far, which was why he got an extension, it makes no sense to fire him. I'm not suggesting that he gets another extension but it only makes sense to pick up his option year. If the team still fails to at least make the play-offs, then don't extend him and start afresh. I know it's frustrating to wait another year but it's the only sensible thing to do IMO.

[ebrian]

There is a part of me that does want BC to stick it out for one more year but for just one reason: I really am curious to see what he does with Bargnani and, if he actually trades him, what will he get in return. After fooling a good portion of the fan base for years - me included! and probably himself - I want to see how BC ends it all.

Can you make that part of you go away?

If we bring in someone else, you won't need to be curious about what that person does with Bargnani. He will be traded or amnestied. What we get in return for Bargnani will be the same -- Bargnani's last 7 years speak for themselves, there's no way to spin it any other way.

[Fully]

Of course they should fire him. Why is this still a question anymore?

I'm tired of hearing the same reasons for keeping him:

He's a PR whiz! You know what else is good for PR? Winning.
He's a "mover and shaker" in the basketball world! When has this ever actually worked to the advantage of Toronto? And don't say the Rudy Gay trade... Memphis was shopping him around to half the league but no one was willing to eat the salary
The organization needs continuity! 7 years in and some people are still worried about pulling the rug out from underneath him? How long should he realistically get to produce even an average team? A decade?

[Mediumcore]

BC's option shouldn't be picked up. Can't argue with results, and the results are are that we've averaged less than 35 wins per season during his time here as GM. He's had more than enough time to rebuild twice now. That along with his refusal to move Bargnani is enough reason to let him go.

Sadly, there has been no announcement of his option not having been picked up which might mean that they are planning to pick it up. There was no reason not to announce that MLSE is letting him go unless they plan on holding onto him.

[Nilanka]

I'd be ok with Colangelo around for another year if he actually showed the ability to learn from his mistakes. But he doesn't.

- He incorrectly pegged Bosh as a franchise player to be built around, and then repeated the mistake with Bargnani.
- He competed against nobody by signing Bargnani to an extension, then repeated the mistake with DeRozan.
- He gave the head coaching reigns to an unproven/inexperienced coach in Triano, and then repeated the mistake with Casey.

I'm going to guess that Colangelo doesn't magically figure out how to build a winner anytime soon. It'll be more of the same next year....and not a single (sane) person will be surprised.