With Leiweke on board, what happens to Colangelo now?

[mcHAPPY]

As opposed to the position of strength they would have if they started trying to trade their "untainted" goods now? :-)

Good point.

But at least right now they are a team that is 'supposedly' making progress and moving forward.... what is the word? Ahhhh, right! POTENTIAL!

If they come out next year as a .350 to .400 team - again - good luck making changes that will need to be made and getting anything in return.

[mcHAPPY]

Remeber 2008? When Colangelo had assembled the best team on paper he had ever had? Remember how that worked out? The only difference between the 2008/09 team and the coming 13/14 team is that the latter won't have a Chris Bosh to salvage the mess. JV is too young and inexperienced. This team has no elite players. You can't win without at least one. Maybe JV is that guy but not right now.

Toronto is not Indy or Memphis or Chicago. Neither the individual talent level nor the roster construction is on par. This team's ceiling isn't Round 2. It's 9th place. Again, maybe JV can change that but it's a lot to ask a second year player who can't get his on hands on the ball cause the perimeter guys need 55 shots a game. I'd love to watch a good Raps team. But this iteration isn't it.

The talent is certainly higher than it has been in many years - which is not saying much unfortunately.

I don't think talent is being maximized and a big part of that is not only roster construction but how players are being used (in particular Lowry) or not used (in particular JV).

But even with all that said, I am not seeing a championship with this group of players, coaches, and management. If that is pessimistic so be it. I'd love to be proven incorrect - again.

[Apollo]

As opposed to cataracts on their eyes.

LOL indeed.

I agree about the closing out games. Anyone on the current roster fit that bill?

Having said that, if you look at what Gasol and Noah and, to a lesser extent, Hibbert are doing for their teams, I could see JV developing into a guy like that who can dominate for stretches and put up highly productive numbers. It's actually kinda funny watching the current playoffs: every single team (other than Miami which doesnt' count cause of Lebron) is solid to good to very, very good at the C position.

Right, so JV developing into an opposing force in the paint only shores up one aspect of what the Raptors require to be successful once they eventually crawl out of mediocrity.

It sure would help to have some draft picks...

[Nilanka]

Dam thats pessimistic lol as long as they dont have Bargs playoffs should be a given next season.

I've been screwed with this kind of unsubstantiated optimism before. I refuse to let that happen again.

I should've learned my lesson with the Jays. This team is sh!t until proven otherwise.

[Puffer]

...JV... needs some sidekicks with ice water in their veins.

As opposed to cataracts on their eyes.

[Puffer]

...Suddenly the Raptors are trying to trade tainted goods from a position of weakness.....

As opposed to the position of strength they would have if they started trying to trade their "untainted" goods now? :-)

[slaw]

All that said, even if JV comes on strong in the next couple seasons and beyond you can't expect him to close out games. Not even the likes of Shaq and TD could close out games, they had guys like Kobe and Manu to shut the door with daggers. He needs some sidekicks with ice water in their veins.

I agree about the closing out games. Anyone on the current roster fit that bill?

Having said that, if you look at what Gasol and Noah and, to a lesser extent, Hibbert are doing for their teams, I could see JV developing into a guy like that who can dominate for stretches and put up highly productive numbers. It's actually kinda funny watching the current playoffs: every single team (other than Miami which doesnt' count cause of Lebron) is solid to good to very, very good at the C position.

[Apollo]

Remeber 2008? When Colangelo had assembled the best team on paper he had ever had? Remember how that worked out? The only difference between the 2008/09 team and the coming 13/14 team is that the latter won't have a Chris Bosh to salvage the mess. JV is too young and inexperienced.

Bosh was an established five year vet when Colangelo entered so yeah, no doubt JV can't help keep a team afloat right now, he's a support player for now. Not only that but his developmental curve may be different. I'm not saying he's going to develop into a lesser player than Chris Bosh in his prime but Bosh had a far better rookie season in my honest opinion so in terms of growth, JV isn't where Bosh was after season one. What he needs to do is take a page out of Chris Bosh's developmental process and pick one area of his game and focus on improving that one area in the off-season. Then next season his overall game will be more dynamic. The following off-season, pick another and the following, another. I would like him to pick big man skills though, that's the only difference. Bosh started in close, he had no mid range to speak of and when he caught the ball out there he used his speed to blow past defenders. unfortunately once he rounded out his offense he relied less and less on what should have been his bread and butter, in close. I want to see JV develop strong post moves and maybe one day an expert sky hook. That's the kind of scorer I'd like to see him become. No one can defend the skyhook. Time to go to class with some old timers, JV. (Oddly enough, a Lithuanian invented the hook.)

All that said, even if JV comes on strong in the next couple seasons and beyond you can't expect him to close out games. Not even the likes of Shaq and TD could close out games, they had guys like Kobe and Manu to shut the door with daggers. He needs some sidekicks with ice water in their veins.

[ReubenJRD]

Wow, I can't handle reading some of the stuff on this thread.

[Rapstor4Life]

This team would need to "overachieve" to make the 8th seed.

Dam thats pessimistic lol as long as they dont have Bargs playoffs should be a given next season.

[Nilanka]

This team would need to "overachieve" to make the 8th seed.

[slaw]

You wait to see if the current team can win, ok, alright, but what if their ceiling is the 2nd round? Or worse what happens if they don't win. Suddenly the Raptors are trying to trade tainted goods from a position of weakness. If you are proactive in acquiring picks and flexibility you will likely raise your return (i.e. Utah/Deron Williams). Trading away your 'best' players does not necessarily lead to a drop off: Denver have made out well after trade (except for injuries) as have Atlanta.

Remeber 2008? When Colangelo had assembled the best team on paper he had ever had? Remember how that worked out? The only difference between the 2008/09 team and the coming 13/14 team is that the latter won't have a Chris Bosh to salvage the mess. JV is too young and inexperienced. This team has no elite players. You can't win without at least one. Maybe JV is that guy but not right now.

Toronto is not Indy or Memphis or Chicago. Neither the individual talent level nor the roster construction is on par. This team's ceiling isn't Round 2. It's 9th place. Again, maybe JV can change that but it's a lot to ask a second year player who can't get his on hands on the ball cause the perimeter guys need 55 shots a game. I'd love to watch a good Raps team. But this iteration isn't it.

[mcHAPPY]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...or-his-future/

Grange: Colangelo fights for his future (edit: an apt description)



It gets more interesting....




And this...




If Colangelo survives another year, well, you have to hand it to the guy. He can't win basketball games but he can stay employed. Kudos to him for that.

Two things with that article:

1) Raptors have paid luxury tax in the past.

2) Asset management:

The question, ultimately, is whether Leiweke wants to make the Raptors relevant now or roll the dice and reverse the rebuild with an eye towards the deep 2014 draft. It’s a riskier route, though one that might give the franchise a higher ceiling in the long term.

Colangelo believes his team is too far down a path to take a backward step now and has been determinedly scrapping to make his voice heard.

The betting now is that Leiweke will listen and the trap door will remain closed underneath Colangelo, giving him at least one more year to prove that he’s put together the core of a team that can win.

You wait to see if the current team can win, ok, alright, but what if their ceiling is the 2nd round? Or worse what happens if they don't win. Suddenly the Raptors are trying to trade tainted goods from a position of weakness. If you are proactive in acquiring picks and flexibility you will likely raise your return (i.e. Utah/Deron Williams). Trading away your 'best' players does not necessarily lead to a drop off: Denver have made out well after trade (except for injuries) as have Atlanta.

[isaacthompson]

Sounds like Colangelo is using reverse psychology by accepting Leiweke, instead of fearing him.

He may not be able to keep his job, but damn. He's a smart guy.

[slaw]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...or-his-future/

Grange: Colangelo fights for his future (edit: an apt description)

Make no mistake: the only person with their finger on the trap door beneath Bryan Colangelo’s chair is the guy who’s not even officially his boss yet.

Tim Leiweke was cautiously cryptic on the subject of the Toronto Raptors executive’s future after it was announced he would be starting as the president and chief executive officer of MLSE on June 30.

It gets more interesting....

Tellingly, multiple sources close to MLSE paint a picture of Colangelo as having embraced the presence of Leiweke rather than cowering at the possibility that a new executive with a very public mandate to win championships would be looking to make his first splash by showing him the door, or opening the trap door, if you will.

And this...

Colangelo hasn’t been passive about the process. He wants to stay in Toronto and he wants prove his view that the Raptors are well positioned to be a playoff team in a rapidly shifting Eastern Conference sooner rather than later.

Rather than wait for the axe to swing, a determined Colangelo flew to meet Leiweke at an undisclosed location late last week and met with him again over the weekend in Toronto, according to sources.

If Colangelo survives another year, well, you have to hand it to the guy. He can't win basketball games but he can stay employed. Kudos to him for that.