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  • #31
    In general terms:
    1. Resolve Bargnani situation - trade him
    2. Improve PF depth - either upgraded starter or solid backup
    3. Improve backup PG position - ideally a pass-first PG, to provide change-of-pace option to Lowry

    Assumptions:
    - Casey will be back, since his option was picked-up already
    - Kleiza will either walk away or be amnestied if his player option is picked-up
    - Gray will return after his player option is picked-up
    - Lucas will return after his team option is picked-up
    - Anderson, Pietrus and Telfair will walk as free agents


    In detailed terms:

    Option A
    - Bargnani & DeRozan & 1st round pick (either top-3 in 2013 or unprotected any year other than 2014, ideally) --> Minnesota for Love & Ridnour & Williams (#1, #2 & #3)
    - use portion/full MLE to sign veteran SF who can shoot 3's and defend, such as Mike Dunleavy or Dorell Wright

    Option B
    - Bargnani & 2014 2nd round pick (better of TOR/SAC) --> Minnesota for Ridnour & Williams (#1 & #3)
    - DeRozan --> Utah for Millsap (S&T) (#2)
    - use portion/full MLE to sign veteran SF who can shoot 3's and defend, such as Mike Dunleavy or Dorell Wright

    STARTERS
    C: Valanciunas
    PF: Love/Millsap
    SF: Gay
    SG: Fields
    PG: Lowry

    2ND UNIT
    C: Johnson
    PF: Williams
    SF: Dunleavy/Wright
    SG: Ross
    PG: Ridnour

    BENCH
    C: Gray
    PF: Acy
    PG: Lucas
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Apr 29, 2013, 11:26 AM.

    Comment


    • #32
      Primer wrote: View Post
      Crazy talk. A trade is necessary because we don't have cap space, let alone enough cap space for a max contract. I really really really don't think Dwight Howard wants to come play for the Raptors. Let's stick to things with a 10% chance of happening like Phil Jackson coming in as team president.
      Oh yes, sorry I didn't think of cap space. Normally, Howard wouldn't come to Toronto but I see a possibility now because TL is CEO. After all his ability to attract big names is one of the reasons he's hired.
      Attitude Is A Choice.

      Comment


      • #33
        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
        I don't like the idea of any trade where we give up JV. My list of players I'd give him up for stands firmly at 2: LeBron James and Kevin Durant. Anyone else and I'd have doubts. Likely too many to make it worth it. I firmly believe JV could be the best 2-way C in the game during his prime. As someone who has followed a team whose best C, at least while with the Raptors, was a 6'9'' PF (Antonio Davis)...I'm so happy to have a legit 7 footer, who runs the floor, can score on the block, facing up and on the p'n'r, has an incredible motor, good leadership qualities, a high bball IQ, and solid defensive ability, all at a young age..It's the biggest luxury this team has ever had. I've said it before and I'll say it again, JV is the best prospect this team has had. He's a C with a game that fits both ends of the court, and just about any style of play the team wants to use. It hurts my brain to think of trading him.
        You would ONLY trade JV for either LeBron James or Kevin Durrant?

        Comment


        • #34
          Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
          seriously not much else to say Bargs just needs to be moved hes killing us just being here, that was proven this season...Addition by subtraction, I hope BC doesnt think hes more valuable than he is, I remember him saying you dont want to trade a guy like Bargnani for anything...which is true but you have to see the team plays better without him...

          "worst case scenario would be him attempting to keep Bargnani to play beside Rudy Gay as his *ahem "Dream Draft Duo" ugggghhhh!
          I don't think that he's killing us being here. He's just a non-factor. If we kept him, he would likely be 3rd big (behind JV and Amir). So I just don't see the point of keeping him around anymore. If we can get back 1 or 2 players and a 1st round pick, i'd take it without thinking twice. I'm not looking for a blockbuster deal here, just some sort of value. I would even take Turkeyglue + first rounder for Bargs, then waive 'glue and call it a day.
          Welp, that sucked.

          Comment


          • #35
            1. Amnesty Bargnani assuming there is no deal available for him that fits a rebuild.

            2. Trade Gay/Demar/Fields/Kleiza - for anything that opens up cap space or draft picks or players still on rookie deals.

            3. Pick up Lowry's options, offer Lowry a 8 or 9 mil x 4 years extension. Doesn't take it, he's up to the highest bidder.


            4. Start Val/Amir/Ross next season with Acy getting 20+ mins, everthing else is filler or any rookies that trades were able to haul in

            Comment


            • #36
              Craiger wrote: View Post
              1. Amnesty Bargnani assuming there is no deal available for him that fits a rebuild.

              2. Trade Gay/Demar/Fields/Kleiza - for anything that opens up cap space or draft picks or players still on rookie deals.

              3. Pick up Lowry's options, offer Lowry a 8 or 9 mil x 4 years extension. Doesn't take it, he's up to the highest bidder.


              4. Start Val/Amir/Ross next season with Acy getting 20+ mins, everthing else is filler or any rookies that trades were able to haul in
              Craiger is rebuilding!

              Comment


              • #37
                RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                Craiger is rebuilding!
                I understand the rationale for rebuilding, but that just sound like blatant tanking, while hoping for one of two lucky things to happen:

                1. get lucky in the draft lottery and then draft a superstar, franchise-altering talent (ie: what people hope Wiggins will be)

                2. hope for another Harden type of deal to come around, then hope that the assets (ie: draft picks & rookies) are enough to entice the team to trade with you

                I just don't believe either option is a guaranteed, tried-and-true strategy for sustainable team-building. I'm also not saying that the current Raptors team is 'complete' or even 'near complete' by any stretch of the imagination. I just think that the Raptors do have a decent young/skilled core, that is a few shrewd moves away from becoming a strong playoff team. There seems to be a lot of unexplored 'gray area' between "keep the team as is" and "complete rebuild from scratch overnight".

                Comment


                • #38
                  CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  I understand the rationale for rebuilding, but that just sound like blatant tanking, while hoping for one of two lucky things to happen:

                  1. get lucky in the draft lottery and then draft a superstar, franchise-altering talent (ie: what people hope Wiggins will be)

                  2. hope for another Harden type of deal to come around, then hope that the assets (ie: draft picks & rookies) are enough to entice the team to trade with you

                  I just don't believe either option is a guaranteed, tried-and-true strategy for sustainable team-building. I'm also not saying that the current Raptors team is 'complete' or even 'near complete' by any stretch of the imagination. I just think that the Raptors do have a decent young/skilled core, that is a few shrewd moves away from becoming a strong playoff team. There seems to be a lot of unexplored 'gray area' between "keep the team as is" and "complete rebuild from scratch overnight".
                  sigh......

                  Craiger is rebuilding!
                  Did I make it that obvious?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Craiger wrote: View Post
                    sigh......

                    Did I make it that obvious?
                    I was curious what your long-term play was. From what you posted (which is all we have to go on), it just seems like you're undoing all of BC's 'work', without any specifics of the actual rebuilding you would recommend (aside from "rookies" and "draft picks"). Hence my 2 assumptions, in place of an actual laid-out strategy (aside from acquiring as many assets as possible).

                    I am fine with BC being fired and am not satisfied with this team as is, but am frustrated with all the posts that complain about how he's built this team, without any alternate plan being presented. For the most part, BC has built through the draft (ie: Bargnani, DeRozan, Davis, Valanciunas, Ross, Acy - 5 lottery picks in past 7 years), while taking advantage of opportunities to turn those assets into proven players (ie: Lowry & Gay trades). Without having more to go on, I just see a similar plan of collecting assets (young players and draft picks, either to play or use as trade bait), while just hoping they turn out to be more successful than all the lottery picks and trades made by BC over the past 7 years.

                    I was just looking for clarification in case my assumptions were off... and it wasn't directly only at you, but just that sort of thinking in general (which is why I didn't reply to your original post).

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I'm going tanking!

                      1) Trade Bargnani to Charlotte for Ben Gordon
                      2) Trade Derozan to Minnesota for Brandon Roy's corpse and Derrick Williams
                      3) Trade Rudy Gay/Kleiza to Los Angeles for Pau Gasol (who we're going to buy out right after)
                      4) Trade Kyle Lowry to Milwaukee for their 2014 first round pick


                      2012-13 Roster

                      JL3 (expiring)
                      Ross
                      Fields
                      Amir
                      JV

                      Bench:
                      Gordon (expiring)
                      Gray (expiring)
                      Acy
                      D. Williams
                      Veteran Minimum Player A
                      Veteran Minimum Player B

                      We're bad enough to be the worst team in the league in 2014 and we have Milwaukee's selection as well (likely somewhere in the 8-18 range). We've also kept our own second rounder in a deep draft. More importantly, we've suddenly escaped from salary cap hell with roughly $42 million coming off the books next summer (Gordon, Gasol, Gray, JL3, Roy). The only players under salary for 2014-15 are:

                      JV
                      Acy
                      Ross
                      Amir
                      Fields
                      D. Williams
                      Wiggins/Parker/Randle (whoever the Raps get w/ their own pick)
                      Milwaukee's 2014 1st rounder
                      2014 2nd Rounder

                      All of a sudden that's a pretty awesome young core. The team would also have $35 million plus in cap room to either a) take on a bad contract or two with the Raps getting a 2015 first rounder (or a good young player) as compensation for doing so or b) make your pitch to free agents who you actually want on your team to grow with the young nucleus.

                      Let the kids take their lumps for one more season (while providing plenty of highlights along the way) and draft in the top 8 again in 2015. All of a sudden you're the Thunder of the East in only 2 years time from now... and you still have more cap space then you know what to do with!

                      That was fun and not that difficult.
                      Last edited by Fully; Tue Apr 30, 2013, 09:28 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Pong wrote: View Post
                        No way josh smith deserves a max deal. And i don't think any GM will be stupid enough to do this. Every stat of his has basically regressed from last year, not to mention he's shooting 59% FT.
                        because he is still relatively young (27), an excellent defender, excellent passer I can realistically see a GM offering him max, what else are they going to do with the capspace and lack of big names availible this summer? Like I said it's a clear overpay, and part of the reason is because I don't think toronto is one of j smooves preferred destinations this offseason, but I think it would move us into the upper echelon in the east and it would be worth it. We could be okc lite, with a more balanced team.

                        lowry (westbrook lite)
                        ross (potential to be an elite defender, more offensive tools than seflosha)
                        rudy gay (durant lite)
                        josh smith (better than ibaka)
                        Valanciunas (better than perkins)

                        notice how all players are above average defensively.
                        Last edited by akashsingh; Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:22 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Fully wrote: View Post
                          If I only get three moves, here they are. Yes, I'm going tanking!

                          1) Trade Bargnani and the Kings 2014 second rounder to Charlotte for Ben Gordon
                          2) Wait until Joe Dumars completely strikes out in free agency and then trade DeRozan to Detroit for Rodney Stuckey and their 2014 First Round pick
                          3) Trade Rudy Gay/Kleiza to Los Angeles for Pau Gasol (who we're going to buy out right after)


                          2012-13 Roster

                          Lowry (expiring)
                          Ross
                          Fields
                          Amir
                          JV

                          Bench:
                          Stuckey (expiring)
                          Gordon (expiring)
                          Gray (expiring)
                          JL3 (expiring)
                          Acy
                          Veteran Minimum Player A
                          Veteran Minimum Player B

                          We're bad enough to be the worst team in the league in 2014 and we have Detroit's selection as well (likely somewhere in the 8-16 range). We've also kept our own second rounder in a deep draft. More importantly, we've suddenly escaped from salary cap hell with roughly $50 million coming off the books next summer (Stuckey, Gordon, Lowry, Gasol, Gray, JL3). The only players under salary for 2014-15 are:

                          JV
                          Acy
                          Ross
                          Amir
                          Fields
                          Wiggins/Parker/Randle (whoever the Raps get w/ their own pick)
                          Detroit's 2014 lottery pick
                          2014 2nd Rounder

                          All of a sudden that's a pretty awesome young core. The team would also have $35 million plus in cap room to either a) take on a bad contract or two with the Raps getting a 2015 first rounder (or a good young player) as compensation for doing so or b) make your pitch to free agents who you actually want on your team to grow with the young nucleus.

                          Let the kids take their lumps for one more season (while providing plenty of highlights along the way) and draft in the top 8 again in 2015. All of a sudden you're the Thunder of the East in only 2 years time from now... and you still have more cap space then you know what to do with!

                          That was fun and not that difficult.
                          Buzz Kill Patrol:

                          But Detroit's picks is going to Charlotte top-8 protected between now and 2015 at which point it becomes unprotected in 2016.

                          Detroit has no pick to trade.

                          **EDIT**

                          My mistake: top 8 in 2014, top 1 in 2015, unprotected in 2016. Detroit still has no pick to trade though until that debt is paid.
                          Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:50 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Fully wrote: View Post
                            If I only get three moves, here they are. Yes, I'm going tanking!

                            1) Trade Bargnani and the Kings 2014 second rounder to Charlotte for Ben Gordon
                            2) Wait until Joe Dumars completely strikes out in free agency and then trade DeRozan to Detroit for Rodney Stuckey and their 2014 First Round pick
                            3) Trade Rudy Gay/Kleiza to Los Angeles for Pau Gasol (who we're going to buy out right after)


                            2012-13 Roster

                            Lowry (expiring)
                            Ross
                            Fields
                            Amir
                            JV

                            Bench:
                            Stuckey (expiring)
                            Gordon (expiring)
                            Gray (expiring)
                            JL3 (expiring)
                            Acy
                            Veteran Minimum Player A
                            Veteran Minimum Player B

                            We're bad enough to be the worst team in the league in 2014 and we have Detroit's selection as well (likely somewhere in the 8-16 range). We've also kept our own second rounder in a deep draft. More importantly, we've suddenly escaped from salary cap hell with roughly $50 million coming off the books next summer (Stuckey, Gordon, Lowry, Gasol, Gray, JL3). The only players under salary for 2014-15 are:

                            JV
                            Acy
                            Ross
                            Amir
                            Fields
                            Wiggins/Parker/Randle (whoever the Raps get w/ their own pick)
                            Detroit's 2014 lottery pick
                            2014 2nd Rounder

                            All of a sudden that's a pretty awesome young core. The team would also have $35 million plus in cap room to either a) take on a bad contract or two with the Raps getting a 2015 first rounder (or a good young player) as compensation for doing so or b) make your pitch to free agents who you actually want on your team to grow with the young nucleus.

                            Let the kids take their lumps for one more season (while providing plenty of highlights along the way) and draft in the top 8 again in 2015. All of a sudden you're the Thunder of the East in only 2 years time from now... and you still have more cap space then you know what to do with!

                            That was fun and not that difficult.
                            1. The Raptors won't have any 2014 2nd round picks in that scenario (the lower of TOR/SAC pick goes to Memphis from the Gay trade).

                            2. I doubt Toronto would be the only team tanking ahead of the loaded 2014 draft, so it could very well be dependent on luck in the draft lottery to even land a top-3 pick in the draft (or who knows, if the Raps get 'lucky' in this year's draft lottery, their 2014 1st round pick goes to OKC).

                            3. It's all dependent on draft picks panning out any better than Bargnani (1st overall), DeRozan (9th), Davis (13th), Valanciunas (5th) and Ross (8th).


                            More crappy basketball, followed by luck and hope. There's no guarantee that those 2 1st round picks become players that are any better than Gay, DeRozan and Lowry.


                            ---

                            EDIT: Plus what Matt said about Detroit not having a 2014 1st round pick to trade (unless it's the #9-14 pick, traded after the draft).
                            Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Apr 29, 2013, 03:07 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              Buzz Kill Patrol:

                              But Detroit's picks is going to Charlotte top-8 protected between now and 2015 at which point it becomes unprotected in 2016.

                              Detroit has no pick to trade.

                              **EDIT**

                              My mistake: top 8 in 2014, top 1 in 2015, unprotected in 2016. Detroit still has no pick to trade though until that debt is paid.
                              Damn! So close. I edited my original post... Raps ditch even more salary next summer and get even crappier in the interim. Win Win!!!
                              Last edited by Fully; Mon Apr 29, 2013, 03:30 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                                If I sound like I'm trolling here, I apologize. Dwight Howard just got DQ'ed in what may be his final game as a Laker. Given Lieweke's signing (and LA connection) and the fact that we have parts for a trade (JV being the centerpiece), how would people feel about DH12 coming here? Again, I pose the question because TL is talking championship, not just making the playoffs. Thoughts?
                                He left the Magic because he was unhappy with their performance and one of those teams went to the finals. The Raptors can't even sniff the playoffs. Why come here? One man in a suit isn't enough unless that man can play like LeBron James,

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