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Jonas Valanciunas or Enes Kanter? (Poll added)

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  • Soft Euro
    replied
    NoBan wrote: View Post
    I dare you to name 5 players you would trade JV to acquire.
    Ok, I'll do that. Let me first explain the reasons why I don't pick certain players, I got four:

    1. Age. Players like Nowitzki, Parker and even someone like Bosh are all no's for me. There are a lot of players in this age category which are better, and maybe even more talented, than Valanciunas. But our team won't be an instant contender with any of those players and they are all at the top of or over their prime. I want this to be a longterm strategy.

    2. Scarcity of position. You hear all the time that the league is going small. In my opinion this is because of the scarcity of big man who can keep up with the smaller guys (and Lebron who can muscle up with most big guys). I don't think it's a good idea to do the same as the rest of the league and go small as well, I'd rather do the opposite and this might be possible with Valanciunas. There is a flood of good point guards right now and I wouldn't trade Valanciunas for a point guard who is only marginally better (hard to compare across positions, but nevertheless) because point guards are much easier to obtain. There are much more people who are 6 foot and a bit than people who are 7 foot; the talent pool is much bigger.

    3. Injury-history. I would hesitate to trade Valanciunas for guys like Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Rose, etc. All very good players, but all have a recent (or current) history of injuries.

    4. Familiarity. This is probably the one you disagree with the most. But the fans have invested themselves in Valanciunas, or at least I have, and I'd like to see how he develops. So I won't even trade him for Anthony Davis; I don't think the difference in ceiling is big enough (this not everyone might agree with as well).

    If you look at the top 30 or 50 players on espn's list, most of those players are either subject to nr. 1 or 3, often in combination with 2: Howard, Paul, Rose, Bryant, Love, Wade, Westbrook, Deron Williams, Nowitzki, Rondo, Bynum, Pau Gasol, etc. Only a few aren't at least either old (this includes players who are now at the peak of their prime, e.g. Carmelo) or with a history of injuries.

    5 players:
    1. Lebron
    2. Durant

    That's it. Those are my five players.

    On the fence: Howard, Love, Griffin, Marc Gasol

    Leave a comment:


  • omgsomuchpotential
    replied
    Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    I would trade JV with no hesitation to acquire any of the three non-established stars below. Would you Soft Euro?

    John Wall
    DeMarcus Cousins
    Anthony Davis

    I like JV but I don't see the superstar in him.
    The thing is, every one of those 3 players on your list has a much higher value than JV so the question now becomes would you be willing to give up something like JV+Amir+1stRounder+Ross for either of those guys + scrubs + bad/expiring contracts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hugmenot
    replied
    I would trade JV with no hesitation to acquire any of the three non-established stars below. Would you Soft Euro?

    John Wall
    DeMarcus Cousins
    Anthony Davis

    I like JV but I don't see the superstar in him.

    Leave a comment:


  • omgsomuchpotential
    replied
    NoBan wrote: View Post
    I dare you to name 5 players you would trade JV to acquire.
    LOL, would you really trade a 20 year old legit center in JV for a soon-to-be 35 year old Dirk? Are you high?

    Leave a comment:


  • NoBan
    replied
    Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    So you would take Dirk over Valanciunas and think we're homers if we disagree... That's laughable and I'll assume you know why.
    I dare you to name 5 players you would trade JV to acquire.

    Leave a comment:


  • Soft Euro
    replied
    NoBan wrote: View Post
    I don't know enough about Kanter to vote here, but I clicked "view results" so I could see the hilarious, homer-tastic overvaluing of JV... I was not disappointed.

    But really, why are we even putting this poll up? People here would rather have JV than James freakin Harden.

    This poll means nothing except that Raps fans are in love with JV. If we are trying to measure just how much JV is beloved/overvalued on this forum, a more interesting poll would be "who would you rather have?" JV vs Dwight, or JV vs Bosh, or JV vs Dirk. I still think people would vote JV over thse proven all-nba talents.
    So you would take Dirk over Valanciunas and think we're homers if we disagree... That's laughable and I'll assume you know why.

    Leave a comment:


  • white men can't jump
    replied
    NoBan wrote: View Post
    I don't know enough about Kanter to vote here, but I clicked "view results" so I could see the hilarious, homer-tastic overvaluing of JV... I was not disappointed.

    But really, why are we even putting this poll up? People here would rather have JV than James freakin Harden.

    This poll means nothing except that Raps fans are in love with JV. If we are trying to measure just how much JV is beloved/overvalued on this forum, a more interesting poll would be "who would you rather have?" JV vs Dwight, or JV vs Bosh, or JV vs Dirk. I still think people would vote JV over thse proven all-nba talents.
    Generally I agree with you, because I am such a person who essentially will not trade JV away.

    But that aside, and I haven't even voted here (until now) because I don't think it's much of a debate.

    I like Kanter. He has very good skills near the bucket and a nice touch in general. Every time I see him play though, he looks a little lazy and slow all around. Scoring and rebounding will never be a problem for him, but I question so-called intangibles, as well as physical aspects that combined with motor, give JV a huge advantage. I see Kanter being an Al Jefferson type player at best....good post scorer and rebounder....but a pretty mediocre defender, who doesn't have great length or speed.

    JV just has many more tools all around, when you also consider the physical and intangible advantages. JV has the skill set, and body-type, to play so many different styles. He is an aggressive player at all times, and he tries hard on D, having made noticeable improvements within the season.

    So basically, if you assume both players would put up something like 20 and 10 (in a best case scenario), then I take JV, because he'll do more other things that both do and don't show up in the boxscore.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu May 2nd, 2013, 11:48 AM.

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  • NoBan
    replied
    I don't know enough about Kanter to vote here, but I clicked "view results" so I could see the hilarious, homer-tastic overvaluing of JV... I was not disappointed.

    But really, why are we even putting this poll up? People here would rather have JV than James freakin Harden.

    This poll means nothing except that Raps fans are in love with JV. If we are trying to measure just how much JV is beloved/overvalued on this forum, a more interesting poll would be "who would you rather have?" JV vs Dwight, or JV vs Bosh, or JV vs Dirk. I still think people would vote JV over thse proven all-nba talents.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jclaw
    replied
    I thought the telling stat that had been left out so far would be FT%. Very important for a big man down the stretch (or in the first quarter if you're D12). I was surprised to see that they were about even. The homer in me would have thought that was JV's edge

    Leave a comment:


  • Joey
    replied
    I can't believe I'm the only one who picked "fairly even" Haha.
    Enes' 23/22 game, in only his Second Start, this past year was an impressive feat; and one Jonas would be happy to replicate.

    feet85 wrote: View Post
    Jv's per 36 min: 13.5 ppg and 9.0 rpg, Ek per 36 min: 12.5 ppg and 10.7 rpg I still like JV but it's close now that i looked more into EK's game
    Your numbers for Enes aren't actually correct though.
    You took his Rebounding numbers from this year (12/13), but his Scoring numbers from last year (11/12).

    Enes' Rookie Numbers Per 36 - 12.5pts & 11.5rpg & 0.9blocks (his numbers this year are 16.9, 10.2 & 1.1)
    Jonas Rookie Numbers Per 36 - 13.5pts & 9.0rpb & 1.9block (I could see all 3 cats going up in his Sophomore year)

    Looking at these, its fairly obvious Jonas holds the Defensive advantage over Enes is fairly obvious. This is why I'd pick Jonas. Age isn't a factor as they were born 18 days apart. Lol


    *All Stats c/o BasketballReference.com
    Last edited by Joey; Wed May 1st, 2013, 03:09 PM.

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  • ReubenJRD
    replied
    feet85 wrote: View Post
    Jv's per 36 min: 13.5 ppg and 9.0 rpg, Ek per 36 min: 12.5 ppg and 10.7 rpg I still like JV but it's close now that i looked more into EK's game
    Very good Solomon Alabi.

    Leave a comment:


  • isaacthompson
    replied
    feet85 wrote: View Post
    Jv's per 36 min: 13.5 ppg and 9.0 rpg, Ek per 36 min: 12.5 ppg and 10.7 rpg I still like JV but it's close now that i looked more into EK's game
    I agree, it is very close. Hopefully we get to see more of Kanter's game next season, if Jefferson or Millsap gets dealt.

    Leave a comment:


  • feet85
    replied
    Jv's per 36 min: 13.5 ppg and 9.0 rpg, Ek per 36 min: 12.5 ppg and 10.7 rpg I still like JV but it's close now that i looked more into EK's game

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric Akshinthala
    replied
    omgsomuchpotential wrote: View Post
    I didn't mean any direspect, perhaps my analogy wasn't a very good one. Maybe JV/Bargs for EK/Millsap isn't impossible, it's just very unlikely to happen IMO.
    No hard feelings Sir. Your replacement of the word 'unlikely' instead of 'impossible' is noted.

    Leave a comment:


  • omgsomuchpotential
    replied
    Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    If I understand your post correctly, in your opinion trading JV/Bargnani for EK/Millsap is the same as trading JV for Wiggins. Not that anybody wouldn't do that(JV for Wiggins) IF the opportunity was there BUT how can you even begin to compare the two scenarios as being similar?

    Matt thinking it's VERY possible is very supportive and thanks Matt for that.

    The way I see it, let me state the difference between the two scenarios. One is Very much possible and the other is Very much impossible. That said though, you're entitled to your opinion.
    I didn't mean any direspect, perhaps my analogy wasn't a very good one. Maybe JV/Bargs for EK/Millsap isn't impossible, it's just very unlikely to happen IMO.

    Leave a comment:

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