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  • #16
    Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I'm sure both Steph Curry and his agent are kicking themselves in the ass over that. His play in the playoffs has made him a max contract player imo.
    They may be kicking themselves....I think they'd be kicking themselves even harder if they had turned down an extension and Curry re-injured his ankle. He had to take the money that was on the table given his injury history.

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    • #17
      ebrian wrote: View Post
      I don't care if DeRozan plays 100% of all available games, he's just not very good.
      Arguments like this are ridiculous, as there's very little room left for a response or rebuttal.

      So, I will simply say that there are ALOT of Basketball minds in the NBA who disagree with you. Adamantly.
      Last edited by Joey; Tue May 7th, 2013, 03:32 PM.

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      • #18
        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
        Arguments like this are ridiculous, as there's very little room left for a response or rebuttal.

        So, I will simply say that there are ALOT of Basketball minds in the NBA who disagree with you.
        List them. Just list them out, quote some articles written about how good DeRozan is. I don't need to know that he can stay healthy or that he works hard. Show cold hard stats.
        Last edited by ebrian; Tue May 7th, 2013, 03:33 PM.
        your pal,
        ebrian

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        • #19
          ebrian wrote: View Post
          List them.
          How about you list one that agrees with your stance that "Demar isn't very good".


          But I'll play into your game a little bit; here's a quote from Doc Rivers:
          "I don’t think people notice him — not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “I think people are sleeping on him a lot. He makes jump shots. He defends. He’s a total basketball player.”
          Last edited by Joey; Tue May 7th, 2013, 03:39 PM.

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          • #20
            joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
            How about you list one that agrees with your stance that "Demar isn't very good".
            http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...ension-edition

            You're up next.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • #21
              I give you Doc Rivers and you give me Grantland? HAH Ya this conversation is over.
              Last edited by Joey; Tue May 7th, 2013, 03:45 PM.

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              • #22
                ebrian wrote: View Post
                List them.
                I only need to list one....Doc Rivers, because his left nut has more basketball knowledge than pretty much anyone on this forum.

                http://www.goodwinsports.com/2012/11...ns-work-ethic/

                Complimenting both his work ethic, and his game.

                “I don’t think people notice him — not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “I think people are sleeping on him a lot. I think he adds stuff every year. Early on, he was basically a kamikaze driver — that’s what we labeled him as, early on. Now he gets to the line. He makes jump shots. He defends. He’s a total basketball player.”

                Everyone’s different,” Rivers said. “(Kevin) Durant picked it up pretty quickly. The greats ones do, some of the guys that have a chance to be really good — it just takes them time and patience. The mental toughness of that is hard. A lot of guys give in, give up and settle. A lot of guys keep driving. What I like about him, and I don’t know him at all, but it just seems like from afar, he must put a lot of time in the summer on his game, because each year, he’s gotten not just a little better, but a lot better in areas that you would have to work on. So I think that’s impressive.
                Not to really add too much to this...but the bold italicized is why I would take DeMar 10 out of 10 times over a guy like OJ Mayo....Or if you want a comparison that takes DeMar out of it altogether and better matches skill sets.....Redick 10 out of 10 times over Mayo. Always take the player who pushes himself to maximize his talent and work on his weaknesses, rather than the guy who thinks he can coast on the skills he has.

                Will DeMar ever be an elite player? No...I very much doubt that. Could he end up being an incredibly valuable piece on a great team? Yes...I think he can be a very good piece on a very good team team. Like a Caron Butler or Richard Jefferson. I still think so much shit thrown at DeMar is because people are stupidly angry he's not a #1 guy...well he was the 9th pick and a total project at wing when drafted. He could've easily been Joey Graham v.2.0. EASILY.

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                • #23
                  joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                  How about you list one that agrees with your stance that "Demar isn't very good".


                  But I'll play into your game a little bit; here's a quote from Doc Rivers:
                  "I don’t think people notice him — not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “I think people are sleeping on him a lot. He makes jump shots. He defends. He’s a total basketball player.”
                  haha shit, you beat me to this quote.

                  *BTW, just to add something. As someone who watches all his games on League Pass, the player opposing broadcast crews are usually impressed with, after JV, is DeMar. And I just don't mean the talking points. You get a lot of colour guys (usually former players or coaches) like "wow, DeMar is doing things I didn't know he could do" or "he couldn't do before".
                  Last edited by white men can't jump; Tue May 7th, 2013, 03:50 PM.

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                  • #24
                    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                    I give you Doc Rivers and you give me Grantland? HAH Ya this conversation is over.
                    Only if you want to be over. You gave me a quote about a coach talking about a player from another team. A team he faces, what, 4 times per year?

                    Here's your quote,
                    "I don’t think people notice him — not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “I think people are sleeping on him a lot. He makes jump shots. He defends. He’s a total basketball player.”
                    I've gotta head home now but let's examine the first two statements prior to the one you bolded tomorrow. Or someone else can, because clearly it's beyond ridiculous and completely invalidates your argument.
                    your pal,
                    ebrian

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      hesketh, you arent going to win an argument by saying that Zach Lowe doesn't know shit about basketball.

                      I was very down on Demar going into the year and I am slightly encouraged at the end of it. He's a lot more consistent with his jumper. Unfortunately, he's worked very hard to develop the most inefficient shot in basketball. Here's hoping he can extend that range a few more feet (I suspect that's the plan). You've gotta love his ability to get to the line, and he's a more aware defender than this time last year. All good signs. But at the end of the day he's still an inefficient offensive player and an irresponsible defender. He's not worth the money he's due

                      If he were still on a rookie deal, he'd be a nice value piece. But now he's making roughly Lawson/Curry money. He's gotta 1) learn where to aggressively help on D; 2) extend his range beyond the 3 pt arc; 3) increase is BBIQ to the point that he's making lightning quick reads to keep the ball moving at a step ahead of the defense. Smooth, laser-like passes; cutting at the right time with no hesitation; and not disappearing for large stretches. Dude's got a long way to go before he's a value piece at almost $10 mil.

                      But back to the original point of this post - Any time youre dismissing Zach Lowe's analysis as inaccurate or inconsequential, youre very likely losing an argument.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        ebrian wrote: View Post
                        Only if you want to be over. You gave me a quote about a coach talking about a player from another team. A team he faces, what, 4 times per year?

                        Here's your quote,

                        I've gotta head home now but let's examine the first two statements prior to the one you bolded tomorrow. Or someone else can, because clearly it's beyond ridiculous and completely invalidates your argument.
                        And how many times a year does Zach Lowe watch DeMar play? (watch play...not coach against )

                        Bringing up bloggers and holding up their opinions to an amazing coach, former good player and one of the best minds currently in basketball is a joke. A bad joke.
                        Last edited by white men can't jump; Tue May 7th, 2013, 04:03 PM.

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                        • #27
                          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          And how many times a year does Zach Lowe watch DeMar play?

                          Bringing up bloggers and holding up their opinions to an amazing coach, former good player and one of the best minds currently in basketball is a joke. A bad joke.
                          Good lord almighty. Stop saying Lowe is wrong about this simply because of 1 quote from Doc Rivers.

                          Doc didn't say that Demar is a potential all-star worth $10 Mil. He insinuate that Demar has solid tools and very well could become a very good player. That is true. But the current reality is a lot closer to the content to the Lowe piece that ebrian linked. Doc isn't going to say that an opposing player is overpaid, inefficient and has gaping holes in his game

                          You've done nothing to address any of the problems in Demar's game that Lowe presented. You're just saying "Look what Doc said... See I'm right... Doc backs me up.... You don't think Doc is credible? Then you're wrong, this proves I'm right." Try looking at some of the criticisms of Demar's game, present arguments and counterpoints and, for the love of all things holy, stop insinuating Zach Lowe is not worth considering, the man knows his stuff.

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                          • #28
                            white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                            And how many times a year does Zach Lowe watch DeMar play? (watch play...not coach against )

                            Bringing up bloggers and holding up their opinions to an amazing coach, former good player and one of the best minds currently in basketball is a joke. A bad joke.
                            To be fair though, the Rivers quote on DD was a direct response to a lob ball question about him from a Toronto media member. Did you really expect Doc to publicly trash him? You could have asked Rivers about Solomon Alabi when he was here and he would have paid him lip service too.

                            It's a nice quote, and I do think that DeRozan has improved a lot in recent seasons even if the advanced metrics don't necessarily reflect that. However the Rivers quote should not be the final and definitive say on DeRozan's value. That's silly.

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                            • #29
                              Thanks for the backup, White Men.

                              ebrian wrote:
                              You gave me a quote about a coach talking about a player from another team. A team he faces, what, 4 times per year?
                              Lol C'mon man.. you don't think the Celtics do a little SCOUTING?!
                              You seriously believe the only information Rivers has on Demar is gathered in the 4 games they play against each other?


                              NoBan wrote: View Post
                              But back to the original point of this post - Any time youre dismissing Zach Lowe's analysis as inaccurate or inconsequential, youre very likely losing an argument.
                              But that's NOT the original point of this post.
                              My original point was, and I quote, "there are ALOT of Basketball minds in the NBA who disagree with you."

                              "In the NBA" being very KEY to all of this, as they are the ones who matter.
                              I never meant to dismiss Zach Lowe .. except to say that he is nothing more than a Blogger.

                              Which, when held up against the Legend that is Doc Rivers, or ANYBODY actually IN the NBA, proves to be nothing more than an opinion based on mostly here-say and a couple games he caught on League Pass.


                              Anyway, this is ridiculous. You've created an argument over OTHER peoples opinions of players. Seriously?
                              We disagree on Demar's value as a Player. Time to drop it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Ok, clearly writer/bloggers put more time into evaluating players than coaches.

                                Is Doc Rivers going to say something bad about DeMar? No. You're right, he's probably not going to say things like "he's a terrible player". He also has no reason to go on about him for 2 paragraphs though. He clearly could have said less if he thought less, as coaches often do to avoid long media sessions.

                                And this is all without even mentioning the fact that writers have agendas, and they actively pursue them through their articles. Lowe is basically saying that Demar's performance up to date tells you all you need to know about him so that he can peg him as a bad contract. Doc on the other hand makes the argument that a lot of players that have a chance to be very good need varying time and lots of work, and then also notes that many don't have the will to keep working and fail to grow.

                                Given DeMar's skill level when he came into the league (basically high school level despite his one year at USC), he has grown much like you'd hope a player of his age and ability to grow. I don't think his contract is outrageous. If he grows for a couple more years, not to mention given his work ethic, even if he doesn't add skill you can expect him to keep refining his game, he could easily be worth it. If he doesn't, it's hardly a burdensome contract of any kind, and at his age is very tradable. DeMar's contract, despite it's cost, is pretty far from bad move, because DeMar, despite his weaknesses, is pretty far from being a bad player.

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