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  • #16
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    None of what you state debates my points but for the sake of my personal boredom I'll bite.

    1. If the stated goal of the Raptors is to make the playoffs, Bargnani needs to sit on the bench in a suit. That's what analytics suggests. That's what basic +/- statistics suggest, win shares, etc. I don't care who's getting paid what. If the stated goal is the playoffs then play for the playoffs. If Bargnani wants to stay in Italy while whoever the GM is tries to move him, let him.

    2. How can you say Acy was outclassed? He was a rookie who didn't get play time until the season was decided and he still appeared passable for a rookie in comparison to the dough eyed moments Ross slipped into (Not trying to diss Ross here). Again, you clearly don't watch D League games so debating you on his potential is impossible-- you've seen him a bit in college and have assumed he hasn't developed since then. Furthermore:

    Acy - 6-7 225lbs
    Haslem - 6-8 235lbs
    R. Evans - 6-8 245lbs
    Diaw - 6-8 235lbs
    T. Young 6-8 235 lbs
    Farried - 6-8 225lbs
    Millsap - 6-8 253lbs
    Maxiell- 6-7 260lbs
    Not to forget top 10 rated draft candidate
    A. Bennett 6-7 239lbs.

    If you include guys like Stackhouse who is 6-6 and often plays the 4 off the bench most PFs are actually closer to 6-8 or 6-9 than 6-10. To be coordinated enough, strong enough and fast enough to play power forward at 6-10 is extremely impressive. That's why guys like Bosh, Aldridge, Nowitzki are special players. The reality is that to be a PF in the NBA Acy may need to add 10lbs, but to suggest he is dramatically out sized demonstrates how little you actually paid attention to the players around him.

    3. Andrea is historically bad at rebounding. By metrics he is the worst rebounder in the history of the NBA over 6-10. That is a fact. Andrea will never be the rebounder Acy is. His defensive numbers are almost as bad as his rebounding numbers. Again, he will never be the defender Acy is now. His offensive numbers are buoyed by a high usage rate. Statistically, he is actually a poor shooter. I never said Acy was going to be a starter, a star, a stud. But there is a place in the league for a person with as much hustle as Q. If all he does is make some team's practices better he will find a spot on an NBA roster.

    What skill does Andrea have that makes you think in 2 years when this contract ends teams will offer contracts to a 7 footer who refuses to play center, can't defend outside the post, has no help defense skills, is addicted to low percentage shots, and has shown no improvement his whole time in the NBA?

    The best part about my argument? You don't have to believe me....Read

    The Centre who plays like he's Eight inches Shorter

    And another one Here

    Let me help you with a nice little quote.

    And Acy? Who barely touched the floor got this around the same time.

    And why do I keep bringing up his time in the DLeague? Because he was a stud there:

    I'm not saying that all translates to the NBA BUT how can we debate whether his skills translate to the NBA if you never watched a single D League game he played in?

    I'll leave you with this:
    That is a pretty impressive post regardless of if I agree or not.

    For the record, I do agree. Acy could have a role in the NBA on any team. Character and hustle goes a long way to filling out a roster.


    • #17
      Thanks Matt. I realized how long my post was after I put it up, shook my head and laughed to myself...


      • #18
        blackjitsu wrote: View Post
        None of what you state debates my points but for the sake of my personal boredom I'll bite.

        1. If the stated goal of the Raptors is to make the playoffs, Bargnani needs to sit on the bench in a suit....

        2. How can you say Acy was outclassed?...
        Great post, both about Bargs lack of utility and also about Acy's contributions.


        • #19
          klow @ the 5

          jv and amir @ the 1-2

          we win it all.


          • #20
            That's a hell of a post, Blackjitsu. Thanks for putting in the effort and time, kudos. It's great to see a raps repub member filling out an argument with legit point instead of mindlessly sticking to their opinion then offering to "agree to disagree".

            You're right that it's unfair to say Acy was outclassed because he's just a rookie. He deserves the benefit of the doubt until he gets a little more experience. I think it's still worth citing that Acy is smaller than every undersized big you listed. He's significantly undersized and it's a disadvantage. I have no doubt he does look great in the D league, where he can make up for that size disadvantage more easily due to decreased competition levels. Similar to how he was great versus lesser competition in the Big 12.

            Haslem - 6-8 235lbs - Acy doesnt have the outside shot that makes Haslem more valuable
            R. Evans - 6-8 245lbs - Acy doesnt have the size to hold interior position like Evans can
            Diaw - 6-8 235lbs - Acy's not nearly as skilled. Daiw's got soft hands around the rim and his an outstanding passer, Acy lacks those qualities.
            T. Young 6-8 235 lbs - Young has a good handle and face-up game, Acy does not.
            Farried - 6-8 225lbs - Probably the best match for Acy's skill set and best-case-scenario for Acy's development.
            Millsap - 6-8 253lbs - Acy can't handle or shoot like Milsap
            Maxiell- 6-7 260lbs - Similar to Evans, Acy doesn't have the size to hold position like Maxiell.

            It's not inconceivable that Acy could add 20-30 pounds and get that Evans/Maxiell-like girth. Maybe he could add an outside shot or face-up game like Haslem. I think it's fair to say he's never going to be as skilled as Millsap, Diaw or Young.

            Farried's shown that he's got that once-or-twice-a-decade nose for the ball. He's got a tiny bit of Rodman in him that way. He's special. Maybe Acy could develop that, too, but I don't think we can say it's likely.

            The point stands that Acy is missing major pieces that makes each undersized player you listed viable NBA role players. Without those qualities, I have doubts there is a place for him in an NBA rotation. And he's still smaller than all of them.

            You're well constructed argument has convinced me to come off my stance that he doesn't deserve a chance in the league, but to ask "how does Acy fit in?" when thinking about big-picture team direction/strategy questions is misguided because he's an end-of-bench guy with a marginal chance to improve to a rotation player (best case scenario).

            Again, great post. Thanks. I want to keep saying that because it's so rare to get somebody astutely defending a position, as you have.


            • #21
              As for the Andrea stuff... I think we can all go on a rant about his lack of utility (well phrased, Matt). Granted, I've backed Andrea more than most over his tenure. Last season was a breaking point even for me. I'm the guy that wants to trade him for anybody but Super Cool Beez.

              But given that he's possibly the least valuable player in the league, it isnt crazy to think we're going to be stuck with him.

              Yes, you're right, he cannot rebound. If he's going to be around, why not move on from begging him to rebound and instead looking for something, anything that he could contribute.

              He's not a good shooter, either. But he has, in the past, gotten hot and made 3s, stretching the defence and providing a little scoring pop. We could use that. If only he got his shooting touch back... (OK maybe not 'back' so much as 'developed'). If he could improve his shooting (as i suggested in my post about team needs), its conceivable that he contribute a little bit, get the confidence ball rolling, find a role on the team, and not be the least valuable player in the league. Not likely, sure. Just like it's not likely that Acy becomes Kenneth Farried. Maybe even a little more likely than that, considering we have seem it from Bargs for short stretches over the years.