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Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

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  • Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What happened to gay? He injured his shoulder.
    People have to put into consideration that he lost his grandmother a month before the trade. She was ill for most of the season. His attention was obviously else where during the beging of the season.

    I don't really think him and DD are that much a like. DD is more of a slasher where as Rudy really tries to set his offense through his jump shots. People use to say Wade and LeBron were too a like but, it took the about year to iron thinks out. Neither DD or Rudy are on that talent level but I feel their skill level is more compatible than the two hall of famers
    @Chr1st1anL

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    • stretch wrote: View Post
      Gay had vision correction surgery right after the season.
      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      People have to put into consideration that he lost his grandmother a month before the trade. She was ill for most of the season. His attention was obviously else where during the beging of the season.
      All valid points as well.

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      • I for one think Gay and DD are going to make some noise playing a full season together Gay and DD are a nightmare match up defensively for most teams 3 and 2 options. Both have post moves both are crazy athletic I want to see this happen.

        with so much negativity floating around fans forget theres alot to be excited about as well.

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        • Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
          Gay the seasoned veteran, FOR NOW, is a better 3 point shooter than Ross the Rookie as far as NBA statistics are concerned.

          When sheer talent in considered, one shouldn't even consider comparing the two. Ross is a much superior 3 point shooter.
          So...I take it you want the fans to wait 2 or 3 years rather than consider immediate improvement?

          Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
          I for one think Gay and DD are going to make some noise playing a full season together Gay and DD are a nightmare match up defensively for most teams 3 and 2 options. Both have post moves both are crazy athletic I want to see this happen.

          with so much negativity floating around fans forget theres alot to be excited about as well.
          This is where I'm leaning. There are far worse wing duos in the league than Demar, and Gay.

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          • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
            I for one think Gay and DD are going to make some noise playing a full season together Gay and DD are a nightmare match up defensively for most teams 3 and 2 options. Both have post moves both are crazy athletic I want to see this happen.

            with so much negativity floating around fans forget theres alot to be excited about as well.
            Unless there is a trade (with Demar) that makes us seriously better, I am all for waiting and watching the wing combo of Demar and Rudy throughout next season. They showed great signs of chemistry and flashes of excellent play this year. People can get a little trade happy. While I agree that there are trades that must be made (namely getting rid of Andrea), this team still has room to grow as a unit together and improve.

            I just get the feeling that our options are very limited right now and people seem to want a big move made this offseason. Would it be crazy to suggest that now is not the most ideal time to pull the trigger on a big trade? While there are some plausible options (trades with Minnesota or Utah come to mind), maybe it would be better in the log term to be a little patient.

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            • Important Question:

              Some of those who are proponents to leveling everything and starting over are also those who expect the Raptors to find a talented, high profile GM to take over for Colangelo.

              That said, if you're a talented, high profile GM, why on earth would you want to come to Toronto if the objective is to lose for the next two or three years? How does that help your reputation, the prestige you've worked hard to build throughout the league?

              This is a matter of logic. The Raptors aren't flexible enough to give the next GM an easy start and they would not have that flexibility unless they dismantled for the next three seasons. No high profile candidate will want to join a dismantle but they may look at what Toronto currently has and see a way out of it without going there. The team does have some talent after all.

              You guys who want it blown up but also want MLSE to score a good GM: You're dreaming.

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              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                Some of those who are proponents to leveling everything and starting over are also those who expect the Raptors to find a talented, high profile GM to take over for Colangelo.

                That said, if you're a talented, high profile GM, why on earth would you want to come to Toronto if the objective is to lose for the next two or three years? How does that help your reputation, the prestige you've worked hard to build throughout the league?

                This is a matter of logic. The Raptors aren't flexible enough to give the next GM an easy start and they would not have that flexibility unless they dismantled for the next three seasons. No high profile candidate will want to join a dismantle but they may look at what Toronto currently has and see a way out of it without going there. The team does have some talent after all.

                You guys who want it blown up but also want MLSE to score a good GM: You're dreaming.
                Danny Ferry came to Atlanta as a "big name" GM last summer and immediately starting dismantling that team with an eye on the future. Rob Hennigan took over in Orlando last summer with the reputation as one of the brightest young minds in the game, and completely stripped it down with an eye on bottoming out this season and for the foreseeable future. Chris Grant has been "tanking" for his entire tenure running the Cavs; the majority of people are saying that he's doing a fantastic job and their future is incredibly bright. Ryan McDonough, another front office wunderkid, just signed on to run the Suns as they are set to enter a lengthy run as a bottom feeder. Sam Presti - who makes everyone's list of top 5 executive's - was the guy who orchestrated one of the most successful runs of tanking in NBA history. The list goes on.

                Hypothetically, I don't think having a "dismantle" looming would deter potential candidates any more than inheriting a capped out non-playoff team with no draft picks this summer and little in the way of trade assets, and trying to figure out what to do next. I'd even argue that the latter would be much more of a deterrent than the former.
                Last edited by Fully; Wed May 22nd, 2013, 09:42 AM.

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                • Fully wrote: View Post
                  Danny Ferry came to Atlanta as a "big name" GM last summer and immediately starting dismantling that team with an eye on the future. Rob Hennigan took over in Orlando last summer with the reputation as one of the brightest young minds in the game, and completely stripped it down with an eye on bottoming out this season and for the foreseeable future. Chris Grant has been "tanking" for his entire tenure running the Cavs; the majority of people are saying that he's doing a fantastic job and their future is incredibly bright. Ryan McDonough, another front office wunderkid, just signed on to run the Suns as they are set to enter a lengthy run as a bottom feeder. Sam Presti - who makes everyone's list of top 5 executive's - was the guy who orchestrated one of the most successful runs of tanking in NBA history. The list goes on.

                  Hypothetically, I don't think having a "dismantle" looming would deter potential candidates any more than inheriting a capped out non-playoff team with no draft picks this summer and little in the way of trade assets, and trying to figure out what to do next. I'd even argue that the latter would be much more of a deterrent than the former.
                  I think the point is that any "blowing it up" should wait for the new GM to be hired, so that they have the assets to work with, in order to tear down / rebuild the team the way they say fit. I don't think a GM would want a team to be blown up right before they're hired, since they'd have a lot less options available with all the most tradeable assets gone.

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                  • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    I think the point is that any "blowing it up" should wait for the new GM to be hired, so that they have the assets to work with, in order to tear down / rebuild the team the way they say fit. I don't think a GM would want a team to be blown up right before they're hired, since they'd have a lot less options available with all the most tradeable assets gone.
                    Actually I think Apollo came out from left field with his 'statement' that no GM would come here with a team that got blown up. I don't think there is a single person in the universe who thinks it should (or could) be done before a GM is hired.
                    your pal,
                    ebrian

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                    • The new GM will inherit a great situation in Toronto, as all of my due diligence around the League indicates that we have a fine, young core and a few key moves will make us a playoff contender next season

                      http://www.hoopsworld.com/after-cola...or-the-raptors
                      I think blowing it up/tanking can safely be removed from the equation or list of possibilities.

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                      • ebrian wrote: View Post
                        Actually I think Apollo came out from left field with his 'statement' that no GM would come here with a team that got blown up. I don't think there is a single person in the universe who thinks it should (or could) be done before a GM is hired.
                        I didn't say "no GM" is said no high profile GM. The Raptors are the kiss of death, just look at that track record. The emphasis needs to be on turning the ship right now. Ripping it down is a controversial approach anyway. For every success story you have half a dozen horror stories; Raptors included multiple times.

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                        • Apollo wrote: View Post
                          I didn't say "no GM" is said no high profile GM. The Raptors are the kiss of death, just look at that track record. The emphasis needs to be on turning the ship right now. Ripping it down is a controversial approach anyway. For every success story you have half a dozen horror stories; Raptors included multiple times.
                          Actually the Raptors are a model of why teams *should* rip it down. Look at the last 5 years. If Colangelo had been willing to rebuild and not retool back then, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.
                          your pal,
                          ebrian

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                          • Stop writing "Raptors mediocrity" your Xmas wishlist:

                            You don't know that. The Raptors have torn it down multiple times and Colangelo had two separate cracks at it with lots of cap space and couldn't get it done. You don't need to rip it down, you need somebody in there that can make the right decisions.

                            Gutting and nose diving isn't a proven method to victory.

                            At some point the Raptors need to build a level of consistency in making the playoffs before high profile FA's are ever going to want to consider coming here without there being extra money involved. Gutting is only going to further destroy the reputation of the team and at a time when they're just about ready to make a playoff push. Chances are they're not going to hit a Durant and Westbrook combo in the draft. They should rebuild credibility now when eyebrows are raised at the executive shuffle. They should strike now at the playoff while keeping the long term in mind; it is very possible to do this.

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                            • Apollo wrote: View Post
                              You don't know that. The Raptors have torn it down multiple times and Colangelo had two separate cracks at it with lots of cap space and couldn't get it done. You don't need to rip it down, you need somebody in there that can make the right decisions.
                              In fairness the only 2 times we tore it down completely we ended up with a team that eventually went to Game 7 of the 2nd round and a team that won the Atlantic division.

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                              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                                You don't know that. The Raptors have torn it down multiple times and Colangelo had two separate cracks at it with lots of cap space and couldn't get it done. You don't need to rip it down, you need somebody in there that can make the right decisions.

                                Gutting and nose diving isn't a proven method to victory.
                                Things are so up to chance it's ridiculous...For every OKC or Portland there's a Charlotte or Sacramento. And even OKC needed some very very real luck. Even bad luck. If, as Seattle, they had won the draft lottery in the Oden/Durant year instead of Portland (both teams were longshots to even land where they did), things could have been much different for both teams. Heck, if they had kept their expected positions (5th SEA, 7th POR), it could've been a pretty terrible draft for both.

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